Results 1 to 33 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,049

    Default type M copper on well water

    What do you think about type M copper distribution piping on systems with well water?

    Do you put that in your report when you find it in the house?

    Similar Threads:
    2018 ASHI InspectionWorld

  2. #2
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    It's allowed in NC so I don't see a problem with it.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    You should even though it is not MD SOP. Many do not understand that well water can cause corrosion to the copper if not properly treated and treatment system is not maintained. Though not all wells produce water that needs to be treated it is best to act as if it is needed until you are absolutely sure it is not needed.

    I would educate the client that if a treatment system is in place and has not been maintained (even for short periods) there is a possibility that the copper will develop leaks.

    Suggest a water analysis be preformed.

    Cover yourself for the liability that the copper fail in the future (as it most certainly will).


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Type M Copper tube, potable, is often found for potable water distrubtion, both above and below ground. Your local code may further identify and/or restrict acceptable/accepted materials, lists further enhanced or limited due to local ground water/aquafer/water quality issues.


    See: Copper.org: Copper Tube Handbook: II. Copper Tube Recommendations


  5. #5
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    If I was a seller and the deal on my house fell through because a HI said there was a problem with the copper pipes in my house that HI had better have some proof of a problem with the piping in MY house. When I, the seller, asked the HI did see any problems with the copper piping that needs to be repaired if the answer is no me and the HI would have a serious problem. In NC the criteria is that a system has to be performing it's intended function and not be in need of immediate repair. And a copper water distribution system that is not leaking falls into that category....IMHO.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    If I was a seller and the deal on my house fell through because a HI said there was a problem with the copper pipes in my house that HI had better have some proof of a problem with the piping in MY house. When I, the seller, asked the HI did see any problems with the copper piping that needs to be repaired if the answer is no me and the HI would have a serious problem. In NC the criteria is that a system has to be performing it's intended function and not be in need of immediate repair. And a copper water distribution system that is not leaking falls into that category....IMHO.

    I agree with your basic reporting comment on the copper pipe but.........

    The current NC rules are actually quite more involved than that.

    The summary can include:

    Anything that is not functioning as intended. This would include an unintended material if prohibited by a local code. Just because an item "operates" does not mean it is operating as intended by the original designer, installer or manufacturer.

    Also, any safety item can go in the summary, the definition of safety is not included in the rules so it can include safety issues for the property or persons. Unreliable plumbing parts is a safety issue for the property.

    Quoting code or reporting that something does not meet the NC building code is not allowed unless you can prove it pertains to that house and also, putting upgrades in the summary is prohibited. Everything else for the most part can be reported based on either the fact that it is not fully functioning as intended or a safety issue for property or persons.

    What the rules have caused in my opinion is a false sense of protection by the driveby inspectors and incorrect training of agents who end up steering buyers away from the really good inspectors for doing the job the way it is supposed to be done which is informing the client about the true current condition of the property.

    Bruce King, B.A. King Home Inspections, LLC
    www.BAKingHomeInspections.com
    Certified Master Inspector, Independent Inspectorwww.IndependentInspectors.org

  7. #7
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post
    I agree with your basic reporting comment on the copper pipe but.........

    Quoting code or reporting that something does not meet the NC building code is not allowed unless you can prove it pertains to that house and also, putting upgrades in the summary is prohibited.
    I agree...Type M copper is an approved material in NC in the plumbing code so how can it be said it is a problem if it is not leaking? I am a licensed plumber and would be glad to write a letter for any seller that is having a problem with an overzealous HI about problems with copper piping.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Gentlemen, is your position that well water and a public water supply have the same effect on copper ?


  9. #9
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Gentlemen, is your position that well water and a public water supply have the same effect on copper ?
    In my experience the public water supply is more of a problem than well water but it depends on the type of treatment being used.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,847

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Gentlemen, is your position that well water and a public water supply have the same effect on copper ?
    If that water has sulphur in it, then you will most likely have a problem. It is all relative to the chemical composition of the water and that is way outside the scope of any home inspection standard.

    Heck, I didn't know what type "M" copper was till about 8 years ago and I have been at this gig for around 15+ years! I doubt many home inspectors know what type "M" copper pipe is unless they have a plumbing background or for some reason they have just been educated about it.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    John Dirks the origin of the discussion is in MD. In MD we have well water that can eat through copper in a mater of months. Granted not all wells in all states have this type of problem. Ergo the need for the water test. I have seen the situation where the water treatment system is not working and the pipes are paper thin and not leaking. Tap the pipe with a screw driver and it leaks.

    Experience is an issue at times to recognize the failing copper.

    Many people are moving from a public water system to private systems and having never been exposed to all that it may entail to maintain and repair on their part. They are accustomed to having someone else responsible for the water and sewer working.

    Add to that in some people's mind all problems are the responsibility of someone other than themselves.

    Three questions:
    1) How HI protects himself from the case of not telling the client that there is a potential problem and then they come back at the HI when the pipes fail $$$$$$$$.
    2) Provide the client with the best service possible and protect them from what they may not be aware of for lack of experience.
    3) Protect he HI from the seller and litigation.

    Somewhat follows the idea of recommending that((( covering the HI liability ))).
    The septic system be evaluated by a professional experienced in that area
    Test well water for contamination.
    Test well for real flow rate and recovery.


  12. #12
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    My point is if a product is approved for use in the code then what right does a HI have to say it is not OK to be used? I would think type M copper is approved for use in MD since it is still being used so a HI is using his crystal ball when he says it might fail someday. Heck....everthing will fail one day so if you are going to include copper pipe as a problem then you best include everything else in the house too.

    Here is what the NC SOP says. See #9 below:

    (b) Home inspectors are not required to:
    (1) Offer warranties or guarantees of any kind;
    (2) Calculate the strength, adequacy, or efficiency of any system or component;
    (3) Enter any area or perform any procedure that may damage the property or its components or be dangerous to or adversely affect the health or safety of the home inspector or other persons;
    (4) Operate any system or component that is shut down or otherwise inoperable;
    (5) Operate any system or component that does not respond to normal operating controls;
    (6) Move personal items, panels, furniture, equipment, plant life, soil, snow, ice, or debris that obstructs access or visibility;
    (7) Determine the presence or absence of any suspected adverse environmental condition or hazardous substance, including toxins, carcinogens, noise, contaminants in the building or in soil, water, and air;
    (8) Determine the effectiveness of any system installed to control or remove suspected hazardous substances;
    (9) Predict future condition, including failure of components;
    (10) Project operating costs of components;
    (11) Evaluate acoustical characteristics of any system or component;
    (12) Inspect special equipment or accessories that are not listed as components to be inspected in this Section; or
    (13) Disturb insulation, except as required in Rule .1114 of this Section.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,847

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    My point is if a product is approved for use in the code then what right does a HI have to say it is not OK to be used? I would think type M copper is approved for use in MD since it is still being used so a HI is using his crystal ball when he says it might fail someday. Heck....everthing will fail one day so if you are going to include copper pipe as a problem then you best include everything else in the house too.

    Here is what the NC SOP says. See #9 below:

    (b) Home inspectors are not required to:
    (1) Offer warranties or guarantees of any kind;
    (2) Calculate the strength, adequacy, or efficiency of any system or component;
    (3) Enter any area or perform any procedure that may damage the property or its components or be dangerous to or adversely affect the health or safety of the home inspector or other persons;
    (4) Operate any system or component that is shut down or otherwise inoperable;
    (5) Operate any system or component that does not respond to normal operating controls;
    (6) Move personal items, panels, furniture, equipment, plant life, soil, snow, ice, or debris that obstructs access or visibility;
    (7) Determine the presence or absence of any suspected adverse environmental condition or hazardous substance, including toxins, carcinogens, noise, contaminants in the building or in soil, water, and air;
    (8) Determine the effectiveness of any system installed to control or remove suspected hazardous substances;
    (9) Predict future condition, including failure of components;
    (10) Project operating costs of components;
    (11) Evaluate acoustical characteristics of any system or component;
    (12) Inspect special equipment or accessories that are not listed as components to be inspected in this Section; or
    (13) Disturb insulation, except as required in Rule .1114 of this Section.
    As home inspectors we can pretty much say anything, but it sure helps if we can backup what we are saying!

    Keep in mind that the codes and inspection SOP's are the minimal requirement and they do not cover ever situation. So if you have knowledge of the local water being damaging to copper pipe, then you better say something about it. This is called the "Standard of Care", and it is what you will be judged by if you are ever called into court. The SOP's are generally not used if a "Standard of Care" can be shown.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Did not say not to use copper, did not say that it is against any code.

    State SOP create a min level of requires effort for the HI.
    Most states do not limit exceeding the min things to be inspected.
    It is up to the Hi and their level of experience an background to go beyond SOP.

    If you find some Big Blue as a supply line that is not leaking, what do you say?

    I do not subscribe to SOP of the licensing state or any organization as the beginning not the end of an inspection.

    Not required to check temp of breakers but sure tells you something other than just looking at them.

    If you want to take the easy path following the SOP to the letter, is all that is required.

    Educating the client is not required. Preparing the client for what may be in their future is not required.

    If there is no reason for you to suspect that the copper may prematurely fail then do not say anything.

    John questioned " copper and wells " . I think that this question was a result of seeing or hearing of problems.. I May be wrong. I may be wrong in my assertion to do more than the min SOP. I do believe that a buyer deserves to have as much information provided to them as possible. If a roof with 20 yr shingle is 23 years old they need to know that a new roof is in their future, not that it looks fine and has no visual defects.

    Copper is not bad. Not against code. Is viable with wells. Worked in the past and will in the future. Just that there are times that it may be a time bomb waiting to go off. If your areas water supply doesn't effect copper then say nothing, which is correct. If your area has demonstrated problems with the use of copper I would say something.

    John tell them all that you know, good and bad,


  15. #15
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    As home inspectors we can pretty much say anything, but it sure helps if we can backup what we are saying!
    What Scott said says it all because you can get in as much or more hot water with a seller as you can with a buyer. If you say there is a problem with something there had better be one somewhere else beside in your mind.


  16. #16
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Did not say not to use copper, did not say that it is against any code.

    State SOP create a min level of requires effort for the HI.
    Most states do not limit exceeding the min things to be inspected.
    It is up to the Hi and their level of experience an background to go beyond SOP.

    If you find some Big Blue as a supply line that is not leaking, what do you say?

    I do not subscribe to SOP of the licensing state or any organization as the beginning not the end of an inspection.

    Not required to check temp of breakers but sure tells you something other than just looking at them.

    If you want to take the easy path following the SOP to the letter, is all that is required.

    Educating the client is not required. Preparing the client for what may be in their future is not required.

    If there is no reason for you to suspect that the copper may prematurely fail then do not say anything.

    John questioned " copper and wells " . I think that this question was a result of seeing or hearing of problems.. I May be wrong. I may be wrong in my assertion to do more than the min SOP. I do believe that a buyer deserves to have as much information provided to them as possible. If a roof with 20 yr shingle is 23 years old they need to know that a new roof is in their future, not that it looks fine and has no visual defects.

    Copper is not bad. Not against code. Is viable with wells. Worked in the past and will in the future. Just that there are times that it may be a time bomb waiting to go off. If your areas water supply doesn't effect copper then say nothing, which is correct. If your area has demonstrated problems with the use of copper I would say something.

    John tell them all that you know, good and bad,
    I do a good inspection using the SOP as an outline and fill in between the lines with facts based on proven documentation and the codes. ( I have had my electrical, plumbing, and mechanical license for over 30 years.) Big blue as you call it has been proven in court to be a problem so it is noted in a report. This is not the case with copper pipes in NC. My house is 26 years old with copper supply lines and have never had a problem.

    The problem I see is some HI's have too much CYA stuff in a report. You may call it good information....I call it spending someones else's money to cover your butt. Short of having a leak or cutting out a section of copper pipe to have analyzed, a comment in a report about a problem with copper pipe on a well system is a red flag with no solution except to replace the copper with CPVC or PEX. IMO


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,049

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    I'm very inerested in giving my clients good information. I'm not too concerned about a seller being unhappy with my report.

    For the record, here is the exact comment that I wrote in the report. This report was sent before I started this thread.

    1. This house has well water. The minerals in well water and the potential for well water to be acidic can be damaging to the copper pipes. The copper pipes in this house are type M which is the thinnest wall copper distribution piping. Copper can corrode from problems with well water. You should have the water tested to determine what treatment systems are needed to reduce the amount of corrosion that could happen to the thin walled type M piping in this house. If pipes corrode from the inside out, leaks can develop which can damage property and building materials. Consult with a qualified plumber about this issue.


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,049

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    A treatment system was installed in the house but it was unplugged and not in service. 1978 colonial bank owned forclosure.

    Here is a pic of some corrosion on pipes.

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  19. #19
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    I'm very inerested in giving my clients good information. I'm not too concerned about a seller being unhappy with my report.

    For the record, here is the exact comment that I wrote in the report. This report was sent before I started this thread.

    1. This house has well water. The minerals in well water and the potential for well water to be acidic can be damaging to the copper pipes. The copper pipes in this house are type M which is the thinnest wall copper distribution piping. Copper can corrode from problems with well water. You should have the water tested to determine what treatment systems are needed to reduce the amount of corrosion that could happen to the thin walled type M piping in this house. If pipes corrode from the inside out, leaks can develop which can damage property and building materials. Consult with a qualified plumber about this issue.
    Good comment for the situation IMO . Did you include it in the summary or just in the body of the report?


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,049

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    I think summarys are designed to cator to realtors in that they devalue some problems. Because of this, I dont do summarys.

    In my opinion, any problem reported on deserves to be fixed. I'm not going to give anyone a reason to justify that something can wait until later to be fixed.

    No summarys from me. The report is the report in its entirity.


  21. #21
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    In NC we are required to have a summary so we have to decide what is a repair and what is not. I don't think that would have made the summary since it is FYI information and not a repair.

    This is from the NC SOP---

    (a1) Summary Page. – A written report provided under subsection (a) of this section for a prepurchase home inspection of three or more systems must include a summary page that contains the information required by this subsection. All other subject matters pertaining to the home inspection must appear in the body of the report. The summary page must contain the following statement: "This summary page is not the entire report. The complete report may include additional information of interest or concern to you. It is strongly recommended that you promptly read the complete report. For information regarding the negotiability of any item in this report under the real estate purchase contract, contact your North Carolina real estate agent or an attorney."
    The summary page must describe any system or component of the home that does not function as intended, allowing for normal wear and tear that does not prevent the system or component from functioning as intended. The summary page must also describe any system or component that appears not to function as intended, based upon documented tangible evidence, and that requires either subsequent examination or further investigation by a specialist. The summary page may describe any system or component that poses a safety concern.


    Last edited by James Duffin; 10-09-2010 at 09:29 PM.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,049

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Interesting. I wonder what other states require a summary. Maryland does not, and I hope they never do.


  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,049

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    For those interested, type M copper pipe has red printing on it. If its red printing and on well water, pay attention.

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  24. #24
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    Good comment for the situation IMO . Did you include it in the summary or just in the body of the report?
    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    I'm very inerested in giving my clients good information. I'm not too concerned about a seller being unhappy with my report.

    For the record, here is the exact comment that I wrote in the report. This report was sent before I started this thread.

    1. This house has well water. The minerals in well water and the potential for well water to be acidic can be damaging to the copper pipes. The copper pipes in this house are type M which is the thinnest wall copper distribution piping. Copper can corrode from problems with well water. You should have the water tested to determine what treatment systems are needed to reduce the amount of corrosion that could happen to the thin walled type M piping in this house. If pipes corrode from the inside out, leaks can develop which can damage property and building materials. Consult with a qualified plumber about this issue.
    After thinking about it....I think I would have added that there was no signs of leaks at the time of the inspection.


  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Charlottesville, Va.
    Posts
    292

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    Here is a pic of some corrosion on pipes.
    The solder on those joints looks like poor workmanship to me. Could the visible corrosion be attributed to an overzealous use of flux? It is my understanding (maybe incorrectly) that the liberal application of flux not removed can cause the type of corrosion seen in those pictures.

    Last edited by Robert Foster; 10-10-2010 at 08:58 AM.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,049

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Another thing that causes corrosion at joints is plumbers not deburring the cut pipes. The acidic well water attacks the deformed surfaces where the cuts were made. Extra turbulance in those areas from deformed surfaces adds to the problem.


  27. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
    Posts
    4,546

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Good call, John. That looks like signs of leakage to me, corrosion along the length of some of the pipes, and given your local conditions, needs to be written up.

    I like the summary. It is a way to pull the really important items out for special attention. Those are the "significant defects", as opposed to the loose doorknob, torn window screen variety.

    If I didn't write a summary, my clients would have to read the whole report.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,049

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Good call, John. That looks like signs of leakage to me, corrosion along the length of some of the pipes, and given your local conditions, needs to be written up.

    I like the summary. It is a way to pull the really important items out for special attention. Those are the "significant defects", as opposed to the loose doorknob, torn window screen variety.

    If I didn't write a summary, my clients would have to read the whole report.

    I understand John. But in reality, I've learned to not sweat the loose door knob stuff. A word or two on site maybe but it doesn't even make the report. I write about stuff that matters.

    I can't imagine a client calling me complaining about a loose doorknob. Not after I crawl out of the attic and crawlspace covered with everything from here to kingdom come.

    It's really about connecting with them. Do it well and they understand from the beginning.

    Don't be a shmuck and the shmucks will fade away. When you've been around as an independent, I know you know what I mean. You're one of he better ones John, I've seen that.


  29. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Because of the wide variation in water quality (utility or private)(reservoir, well, lake or stream) any piping material and fittings can be affected. i.e. copper, galvanized, Polybutylene, PEX fittings such as Kitec etc. etc.

    Here is my boiler plate statement:Water quality varies and may affect the long-term performance of the piping material and connections. Water chemistry and contaminant presence can be verified. Water quality testing by a reputable service is encouraged to determine treatment needs and methods.

    A White Paper Review:
    History of Use and Performance of Copper Tube For Potable Water Service

    Richard O. Lewis, P.E.
    Lewis Engineering and Consulting, Inc
    Pinhole Leaks in Copper Pipes - Marc Edwards QA
    Excerpt:
    Copper Pipe

    Any investigation into the cause of a leak in a home plumbing system would not be complete without an examination of the copper tube itself. As with any product manufactured in large quantities, such as copper water tube, defects can occur. It is extremely rare that a defect in the wall of a copper tube would go unnoticed for an extended period of time, however. Generally, if as-manufactured holes, cracks or other defects are present, they are made evident during pressure testing and commissioning of the plumbing system. If a homeowner were to experience a leak within a few days or weeks of placing a system into service, the most likely cause would be a material defect or a poorly made fitting connection. The longer a system is operated before a leak occurs, the more likely the cause is related to poor workmanship, improper flushing or stagnation, or aggressive water chemistry.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Summary" - A summary is a brief statement or restatement of main points, esp. as a conclusion to a work. It is very much market driven. All of the HI's in my area include a summary. Boiler statement... The complete report and agreement document must be read and considered before making decisions related to the home inspection.

    Charles @ PreVue Property Inspections, Santa Fe, NM
    http://www.prevuepropertyinspections.com/
    "How can someone with glasses so thick be so stupid?"

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    John D.

    This is a specific report inclusion you requested. Though it doesn't mention type M, my view is thick or thin the reactions still take place. I do look at the aerators on faucets, Koller sometimes uses copper and can give you an idea of what is going on with system. seen them totally gone though no one ever noticed.

    " The property has copper used in the water distribution system, including but not limited to, pipe and fixtures.
    Well water should be tested for its PH (acidic level) and corrected if warranted. Acidic water will cause damage to any copper and most metals that it contacts. If the certified water test show that a condition exists that requires a correctly functioning treatment system and one is not present there will be existing damage to the present water supply system. Further note, that if a water treatment system has not been in continuous use (without interruption) for the entire life of the water supply system then there will be some level of damage to the existing water supply system. It is recommended that a Master Plumber inspect the entire water distribution system and a written report certifying the present condition of the entire water supply system be obtained including what actions should be taken.

    Well water may carry high levels of minerals that will have a detrimental affect on appliances. A certified water test is recommended to determine it a treatment system is needed.

    It is recommended that a certified water test be obtained for the presence of any hazardous materials or contaminates present in the water supply system. This testing is to include any cisterns. "


  31. #31
    Nathaniel Johnson's Avatar
    Nathaniel Johnson Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    The solder on those joints looks like poor workmanship to me. Could the visible corrosion be attributed to an overzealous use of flux? It is my understanding (maybe incorrectly) that the liberal application of flux not removed can cause the type of corrosion seen in those pictures.
    My experience says you are right on the money. Proper solder joints in copper pipe require the joint be wiped free of excess solder and the solder flux cleaned as well. The residue at the joint is the acidic solder flux reacting with condensation over time.

    In my part of the world, type M copper is mostly not used because it just doesn't hold up. Type L on the other hand works well for many years. I own a home with Type L on the domestic well water and Hydronic heating and it has held up well for 60 years. Well water PH is 6.4.


  32. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    conyers, ga
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    I am in Georgia and many older homes on well water and copper pipes had a high rate of corrosion, green staining which is cooper sulfate and very poisonous.

    When I was younger, My grandfather was diagnosed with copper sulfate poising, was traced back to copper plumbing in his house. We replaced all with CPVC back when that product first came on the market here.

    As long as the water is good/treated should not be a problem.

    I will only have CPVC or PEX put in my next house.


  33. #33
    David Bell's Avatar
    David Bell Guest

    Default Re: type M copper on well water

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Clarke View Post
    I am in Georgia and many older homes on well water and copper pipes had a high rate of corrosion, green staining which is cooper sulfate and very poisonous.

    When I was younger, My grandfather was diagnosed with copper sulfate poising, was traced back to copper plumbing in his house. We replaced all with CPVC back when that product first came on the market here.

    As long as the water is good/treated should not be a problem.

    I will only have CPVC or PEX put in my next house.
    Copper sulfate poisoning is mainly attributed to pesticide and algaecide use and its ability to leach into wells.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •