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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    California
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    26

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
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    222

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Thanks Doug...very helpful!

    Beacon Inspection Services
    Proudly Serving the Greater Henderson and Las Vegas Valley Area in Southern Nevada!
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Plano, Texas
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    4,170

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Wow!!!

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  4. #4
    Bruce Hutton's Avatar
    Bruce Hutton Guest

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    So how do you guys report on this?

    I have seen a million of the 750 million feet in my area alone.

    There is a lot of it around here.
    I read things like this & think why am I a HI?




  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring City/Surrounding Philadelphia area
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    3,473

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    My oh my.

    I'm thinking a standard description in my reports something to the effect of........"This property contains CSST gas piping. CSST gas piping has been the subject of recent litigation and was determined in a court of law to be a defective product. Consult with a professional plumber/gas line installer for other piping options and alternatives."

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  6. #6
    Nolan Kienitz's Avatar
    Nolan Kienitz Guest

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Kudo's to Douglas for posting this over here.

    I've had 'warning' notes in my reports for a couple of years now.

    I was asked to help on a legal case where a client (attorney) took builder, plumber, etc., etc. to court for the CSST installation on a new home ... about two years ago.

    I handed off the project to another excellent EW HI in our market who helped out.

    Pretty sure the client prevailed.

    I really don't care for the product and the bonding 'hoo-rah" is just that. Kind of like smoke & mirrors.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    1,984

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Thanks for the post Doug. Not allowed here in the City but I see it regularly in the burbs. Have to add a note in the reports.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  8. #8
    C.Johnson's Avatar
    C.Johnson Guest

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Thanks indeed!
    I see this this stuff in new construction 95% of the time around here


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    So it was found to be a defective product on that particular house in the lawsuit or a defective product period?

    I'm not sure we have enough information to make that call at this point.

    Bruce King, B.A. King Home Inspections, LLC
    www.BAKingHomeInspections.com
    Certified Master Inspector, Independent Inspectorwww.IndependentInspectors.org

  10. #10

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Thanks Doug.
    Is there any work around for these systems like a lightning rod?

    Hello Markus, I would guess CSST is allowed in Chicago since about 2002 when I put it in my house. I see it a few times a year in the city, but the plumbers aren't very familiar with it in my opinion.

    Although Chicago city doesn't allow gas pipe bonding, Doug has said in the past the gas pipe is bonded through our furnace electrical conduit.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    1,984

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Chris, I am not aware that it is allowed in the City. I will check the latest Code book and see if there is a change I don't remember or know about. As far as 02 I know it wasn't allowed since plumbing inspectors I worked with were writing it up as non-comp back then.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    South-West Michigan
    Posts
    469

    Post Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Shazam! Are we going to see recalls of this stuff? I wonder if local code officials are aware of this? I may be making some telephone calls. Builders around here love the stuff.

    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

  13. #13
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    So are you providing literature to your clients, in the reports. This stuff is everywhere around here, it's all they use.


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Several manufacturers and products, including Omegaflex's TracPipe of this vintage WERE already subject to a Class Action/Settlement, that included installation of a bonding and ground system being installed AND a lightning system! See: Lovelis, et al. vs. Titeflex et al. at (clickable link to the class settlement page): CSST Settlement - Home Page

    Untested, unpublished, unsettled, unperfected (not yet challenged) cases are worthless regarding precedent.

    TracPipe non-conductive CSST vulnerabilities to lightning is not news.

    What IS important is what Omegaflex has said (published - even in their SEC 10-K filings) about NOT to use TracPipe in the Ohio Valley and the southeast, being so prone to lightning - and thats "why" they developed and brought to market in 2004, their conductive CSST product: "Counterstrike", and the "Improved" version of "Counterstrike" which made market in 2007. Here is a blurb from the company's 10-K filing with SEC for FY filing 2007:


    In 2004, we introduced a new brand of flexible gas piping sold under the registered trademark "CounterStrike®". CounterStrike® is designed to be more resistant to damage from transient electrical arcing. This feature is particularly desirable in areas that are subject to high levels of lightning strikes, such as the Southeast, and the Ohio Valley. In a lightning strike, the electrical energy of the lightning can energize all metal systems and components in a building. This electrical energy in attempting to reach ground may arc between metal systems that have different electrical resistance, and arcing can cause damage to the metal systems. In standard CSST systems, an electrical bond between the CSST and the building’s grounding electrode would address this issue, but lightning is an extremely powerful and unpredictable force. CounterStrike® CSST is designed to be electrically conductive to disperse the energy of any electrical charge over the entire surface of the CounterStrike® line. In 2007, we introduced a new version of CounterStrike® CSST that was tested to be 6 times more resistant to damage from electrical arcing than the original version, and between 50 to 400 times more effective than standard CSST products. As a result of its robust performance, the new version of
    CounterStrike® has been warmly received in the market, and is a validation of our market leadership in the industry.


    Short version of above quote: 2007 CounterStrike = 6 times more resistant from electrical arcing than 2004 Counterstrike; 2007 CounterStrike = 50-400 times more effective than TracPipe. Omegaflex was "aware" of the "lightning problem" before 2004 as they switched to conductive SS.

    The referenced "case" in the OP hasn't even been transcripted, published, released/final order to appeal (appellate review) yet. As far as the puffing, regards THIS case and THIS lawfirm; I am not impressed!

    It would be premature to act as though there is any significance, and we do NOT know the details of what was aledged, or the stipulations and/or findings in the case. We do not know the vintage of the installation, (apparently 1996-98 install or mfg'd product) or specifics as regards to bonding, protection, etc. Instructions have changed since 1998 regarding bonding CSST. The Class Action Settlement provided for Bonding & Grounding system for CSST AND a lightning protection system for the "zone" of the parties of THIS (OP) suit (If they were "smart" they'd have paid themselves for a B&G and submitted for a Lightning System). This installation would have been covered under the settlement (and the extension) and should have had a Bonding & Ground System for the entirety of the CSST AND the premisis Lightning system installed, that goes back to the Class Action, UNLESS "they" opted out, OR failed to make a claim. Unknown if these folks opted out, or participated, or didn't participate; then had a catastrophic damage event, or what!! Strict liability and damages claims were not waived by the participating Class in the settlement.

    It would be irresponsible to depend upon a 2nd party or a self-published announcement/release designed to gain clients for a future class-action not yet filed by a firm specializing in such. We no nothing about what has/had been aledged in the instant (OP's) suit.

    Frankly am unclear if the case being puffed about, is regarding about system or utility supply CSST or connectors made with same, OR if the B&G and Lightning systems WERE installed as per the Class Action, and technical notices, settlement notices, etc.. It is really NOT news that TracPipe shouldn't be used integrated and unprotected in areas prone to lightning. Frankly, that's why Omegaflex developed Counterstrike, then "improved" it. The Class Action from Omegaflex Inc's side was woefully under-claimed, and they got off cheap (50% discount) paying off future exposure claims into the fund early (2008), based on the woefully underclaimed representative class (projected % and feet/TracPipe installed properties vs. low $'s and low % participation of Settlement claims submitted).

    However this IS a reminder about the issue in general with the "vintage" CSST and need to be B&G AND possibly a lightning protection system being installed. B&G via electrical connections in the appliance do NOT do the "job" regards non-conductive SS CSST.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 11-07-2010 at 03:19 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Green Lane, PA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    What would a proper lightning protection system be?


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    293

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit


    I found this excerpt from Doug's posted document to have a very familiar ring.

    "...CSST manufacturers, as an industry, argue that compliance with these
    code requirements demonstrates their products to be safe."

    Sound familiar?



  17. #17
    Rod Smith's Avatar
    Rod Smith Guest

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    I dunno, but I STILL dont trust the stuff! Seems like you are asking an awful LOT of a thin piece of stainless!


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    293

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Smith View Post
    I dunno, but I STILL dont trust the stuff! Seems like you are asking an awful LOT of a thin piece of stainless!
    I agree Rod.

    I rarely see this product in my area so its not been much of an issue for me. Anyone aware of any new news out there about this product?


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring City/Surrounding Philadelphia area
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    3,473

    Default Re: CSST Product Liability Lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Stojanik View Post
    I agree Rod.

    I rarely see this product in my area so its not been much of an issue for me. Anyone aware of any new news out there about this product?
    Check out this thread. http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...inal-word.html

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

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