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  1. #1
    Gerald Benson's Avatar
    Gerald Benson Guest

    Default Changes of Direction

    According to 708.3.3 in the IPC Cleanouts shall be installed at each change in direction greater than 45 degrees in the building sewer, building drain and horizontal waste or soil lines.

    I have a plumber telling me that he can use two 45's to make a 90 and not need a cleanout because of the 45 degree rule. My thought is that if you use two 45's you are changing the direction of flow 90 degrees which is greater than 45 so a cleanout is required. I am a pretty new BI and would appreciate any help with this.

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chicago IL
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    Default Re: Changes of Direction

    Ok, I can't help myself ... is the plumber an Okie from the Pokie? Sorry.
    Let me see if I can do the math on this 2x45=90
    I have actually heard other plumbers use that line before. Must be something they teach. Making the bend with two 45's doesn't change the degree of angle, all it does is increase the sweep or in other words the length of the run.
    It is common, a lot of plumbers really hate the cleanout at change of direction.
    I don't settle for his explanation. I would let him know you'll write it as defective unless he can provide a Code section to back up his math. That pretty much always shuts them up.
    The cost difference isn't big enough to spend a lot of time arguing.

    www.aic-chicago.com
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    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
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    Default Re: Changes of Direction

    Your "plumber" should know better: it is not appropriate to use vent fittings on drainage piping.

    Drainage utilizes bends, sweeps and other (sanitary) drainage fittings.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
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    536

    Default Re: Changes of Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Your "plumber" should know better: it is not appropriate to use vent fittings on drainage piping.

    Drainage utilizes bends, sweeps and other (sanitary) drainage fittings.
    Maybe he's found the mythical long sweep 1/8 drainage bend. I hear your plumbing drains like magic when you use them.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Changes of Direction

    From the 2006 IRC:
    - P3005.2.4 Change of direction. Cleanouts shall be installed at each fitting with a change of direction more than 45 degrees (0.79 rad) in the building sewer, building drain and horizontal waste or soil lines. Where more than one change of direction occurs in a run of piping, only one cleanout shall be required in each 40 feet (12 192 mm) of developed length of the drainage piping.

    Okay, let's say we give him the break he is looking for ... he did not install *a* fitting which had a change of direction of more than 45 degrees, so no clean out required for that FIRST 45 degree fitting, but ... as soon as he installs the SECOND 45 degree fitting to finish out the 90 degrees, he now needs the cleanout.

    Let's also look at it this way: he installs a 45 degree change in direction, runs 100 feet, and installs another 45 degree change in direction - that equals 90 degrees, right? But we all can (I think) agree that the code is not addressing those two SEPARATE 45 degree changes as one 90 degree change, but, if one 45 degree change fitting is glued directly into the other 45 degree change fitting, that is effectively a 90 degree change, right (I think we all can agree on that too).

    Okay, so the question become this: How far apart do the fittings need to be to NOT BE considered a greater than 45 degree change in direction?

    The way I read the above code section is that if there is more than one change of direction in a run of piping (there are two changes in direction, 45 degree change each, regardless how close the two fittings are to each other), then a clean out is needed, only one clean out for each 40 feet of piping.

    What that code section says is this:
    - if there is ONE change in direction of greater than 45 degrees, a clean out is needed, but because a single 45 degree change is not greater than 45 degrees, no clean out is required.
    - however, as soon as the second 45 degree change in direction fitting is installed, the "with a change of direction more than 45 degrees" is set aside for the "more than one change of direction" (notice the lack of "more than 45 degrees" in that one, it simply states "more than one change in direction" - and that we now have with the second 45 degree change)
    - which means on cleanout is required for those two 45 degree changes in direction

    Not sure if that came out as I intended it or not , I will find out from the responses to it.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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