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  1. #1
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    Default Gas Under Concrete

    If a steel gas line is installed under a concrete sidewalk slab, is it required to be vented on both ends of the PVC sleeve, or just one end? I can't remember if it is to be sealed on one end and vented on the other, or vented at both ends.

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    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  2. #2
    Glenn Clements's Avatar
    Glenn Clements Guest

    Default Re: Gas Under Concrete

    From what you describe the piping is only under a sidewalk and the sleeve does not extend into a building or crawl space. If this is the case the sleeve does not have to be sealed or vented. The sleeve is to provide for the protection of the gas pipe under the sidewalk and to provide for the replacement or repair of the gas pipe without having to tear up the sidewalk.

    Section 404 (IFGC) Piping Systems Installation.
    404.4 Underground piping where installed below grade throught the outer foundation or basement wall of a building, shall be encased in a protective pipe sleeve. the annular space between the gas piping and the sleeve shall be sealed.

    404.9 calls for a minimum burial depth of underground piping of 12 inches.
    The exception to that is piping for individual outside appliances,(404.9.1) gas lights, grills or other appliances shall be installed a minimum of 8 inches below finished grade.

    Venting and sealing of conduits containing gas piping is addressed in: Section 404.11 Piping underground beneath buildings. Piping installed underground beneath buildings is prohibited except where the piping is encased in a conduit of wrought iron, plastic pipe, or steel pipe designed to withstand the superimposed loads. Such conduit shall extend into an occupiable portion of the building and, at the point where the conduit terminates in the building, the space between the conduit and the gas piping shall be sealed to prevent the possible entrance of any gas leakage. Where the end sealing is capable of withstanding the full pressure of the gas pipe, the conduit shall be designed for the same pressure as the gas pipe. Such condiut shall extend not less than 4 inches outside the building, shall be vented above grade to the outdoors, and shall be installed so as to prevent the entrance of water and insects.

    If all else fails ask the AHJ, if they are not helpful they are not doing their job.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Gas Under Concrete

    If I'm understanding correctly, New Mexico utilizes a modified UMC, UPC, etc. and has for a long, long, time.

    NM Construction Industries Division - Rules and Law

    Therefore, references to the IFGC, or requirements in a completely different (SE U.S. vs. SW U.S.) geographic, elevation, climatic, temperate, and seismic region 2000+ miles away; I believe would be and are irrelevant, as would be chapters 11-43 of the 2009 IRC.



    I believe NM's version of the 2009 IRC is modified thusly:



    B. Section R102 - Applicability.
    (1)R102.1 General. Delete this section of the IRC and see 14.5.1 NMAC, General Provisions.
    (2)R102.2 Other laws. Delete this section of the IRC and see 14.5.1 NMAC, General Provisions.
    (3)R102.3 Application of references. Delete this section of the IRC and see 14.5.1 NMAC, General Provisions.
    (4)R102.4 Referenced codes and standards. Delete this section of the IRC and substitute the following: The codes referenced in the NMRBC are set forth below. See also 14.5.1 NMAC, General Provisions.
    (a) Electrical. The NMEC applies to all electrical wiring as defined in NMSA 1978 Section 60-13-32. All references in the IRC to the ICC electrical code are deemed references to the NMEC.
    (b) Gas. The NMMC applies to “gas fittings” as that term is defined in NMSA 1978 Section 60-13-32. All references in the IRC to the international mechanical code are deemed references to the NMMC.
    Gas piping, systems and appliances for use with liquefied propane gas (LPG), or compressed natural gas (CNG), shall be governed by the LPG standards (NMSA 1978, Section 70-5-1 et seq., LPG and CNG Act, and the rules promulgated pursuant thereto, 19.15.4.1 through 19.15.4.24 NMAC.)
    (c)Mechanical. The NMMC applies to the installation, repair, and replacement of mechanical systems including equipment, appliances, fixtures, fittings and/or appurtenances including ventilating, heating, cooling, air conditioning, and refrigeration systems, incinerators, and other energy related systems. All references in the IRC to the international mechanical code are deemed references to the NMMC.
    (d)Plumbing. The NMPC applies to the installation, alterations, repairs, and replacement of plumbing systems, including equipment, appliances, fixtures, fittings, and appurtenances, and where connected to a water or sewage system and all aspects of a medical gas system. All references in the IRC to the international plumbing code are deemed references to the NMPC.
    (e)Energy. The NMECC applies to all energy-efficiency-related requirements for the design and construction of buildings that are subject to the New Mexico construction codes. All references in the IRC to the international energy code are deemed references to the NMECC.

    and

    14.7.3.19 CHAPTER 11 ENERGY EFFICIENCY: Delete this chapter of the IRC and see 14.7.6 NMAC, the NMECC.
    [14.7.3.19 NMAC - Rp, 14.7.3.19 NMAC, 1-28-11]

    14.7.3.20 CHAPTERS 12 THROUGH 23 MECHANICAL: Delete these chapters of the IRC and see 14.9.2, NMMC.
    [14.7.3.20 NMAC - Rp, 14.7.3.20 NMAC, 1-28-11]

    14.7.3.21 CHAPTER 24 FUEL GAS: Delete this chapter of the IRC and see the NMMC.
    [14.7.3.21 NMAC - Rp, 14.7.3.21 NMAC, 1-28-11]

    14.7.3.22 CHAPTERS 25 THROUGH 33 PLUMBING: Delete these chapters of the IRC and see the NMPC.
    [14.7.3.22 NMAC - Rp, 14.7.3.22 NMAC, 1-28-11]

    14.7.3.23 CHAPTERS 34 THROUGH 43 ELECTRICAL: Delete these chapters of the IRC and see the NMEC.
    [14.7.3.23 NMAC - Rp, 14.7.3.23 NMAC, 1-28-11]



    If I further recall correctly, NM requires minimum 18" of cover unless otherwise installed in conduit or bridged (sheilded), see/check chapter 13 of the UMC as ammended by NMAC 14.9.2. (i.e. see NMMC, & NMSA).



    The CID rules may be purchased at any of the CID offices. For additional information regarding publications available for purchase, see the publication order form.
    For questions about these building codes, call the appropriate Bureau chief:
    General Construction - Fermin Aragon 476-4672;
    Electrical - Rem Pacheco 476-4679;
    Mechanical - J.T. Baca 476-4661;
    Plumbing - J.T. Baca 476-4661

    above from:

    NM Construction Industries Division - Rules and Law

    HTH.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 04-01-2011 at 10:00 AM.

  4. #4
    Glenn Clements's Avatar
    Glenn Clements Guest

    Default Re: Gas Under Concrete

    Not to get in a p contest with anyone but last line in my post "Check with AHJ"

    On the other hand

    New Mexico Statewide
    09 IBC, IRC, IPC, IMC, IFGC, IECC & IEBC adopted statewide by NM Const Ind Div. '03 IFC adopted statewide by the State Fire Marshal's Office. NM uses the 2009 NM Codes which are based on the 2009 I-codes and amendments. New Mexico Construction Industries has adopted the 2009 codes effective January 1, 2011 (mandatory July 1, 2011). They can be accessed at http://www.rld.state.nm.us/cid/rules-and-law.htm
    • 2009 International Building Code
    • 2009 International Energy Conservation Code
    • 2009 International Existing Building Code
    • 2003 International Fire Code
    • 2009 International Fuel Gas Code
    • 2009 International Mechanical Code
    • 2009 International Plumbing Code
    • 2009 International Residential Code
    New Mexico Construction Industries Commission
    • International Building Code
    • International Energy Conservation Code
    • International Existing Building Code
    • International Residential Code
    New Mexico Public Regulatory Commission
    • 2003 International Fire Code
    New Mexico Jurisdiction

    Alamogordo
    • 2006 International Building Code
    • 2006 International Energy Conservation Code
    • 2006 International Existing Building Code
    • 2006 International Residential Code
    Albuquerque
    • 2003 International Building Code
    • 2003 International Energy Conservation Code
    • 2003 International Existing Building Code
    • 2003 International Fire Code
    • 2003 International Performance Code
    • 2003 International Residential Code
    Artesia
    • 2006 International Building Code
    • 2006 International Energy Conservation Code
    • 2006 International Existing Building Code
    • 2006 International Residential Code
    Bernalillo
    • 2003 International Building Code
    • 2003 International Existing Building Code
    • 2003 International Residential Code
    Bernalillo County
    • 2006 International Fire Code
    Clovis
    • 2006 International Building Code
    • 2006 International Energy Conservation Code
    • 2006 International Existing Building Code
    • 2006 International Fire Code
    • 2006 International Fuel Gas Code
    • 2006 International Mechanical Code
    • 2006 International Plumbing Code
    • 2006 International Property Maintenance Code
    • 2006 International Residential Code
    Farmington
    • 2006 International Building Code
    • 2006 International Energy Conservation Code
    • 2006 International Existing Building Code
    • 2006 International Fire Code
    • 2006 International Residential Code
    Hobbs
    • 2006 International Building Code
    • 2006 International Energy Conservation Code
    • 2006 International Existing Building Code
    • 2006 International Fire Code
    • 2006 International Residential Code
    Las Cruces
    • 2003 International Building Code
    • 2003 International Fire Code
    • 2003 International Mechanical Code
    • 2003 International Plumbing Code
    • 2003 International Residential Code
    Los Ranchos Fire Department
    • 2003 International Fire Code
    Red River
    • 2003 International Fire Code
    Sandoval County
    • 2003 International Fire Code
    San Juan County
    • 2006 International Building Code
    • 2006 International Energy Conservation Code
    • 2006 International Existing Building Code
    • 2006 International Fire Code
    • 2006 International Residential Code
    Santa Fe
    • 2003 International Fire Code
    Silver City
    • 2003 International Building Code
    • 2003 International Energy Conservation Code
    • 2003 International Existing Building Code
    • 2006 International Fire Code
    • 2003 International Residential Code
    • 2003 International Urban-Wildland Interface Code



  5. #5
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    Default Re: Gas Under Concrete

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Clements View Post
    Not to get in a p contest with anyone but last line in my post "Check with AHJ"

    On the other hand

    New Mexico Statewide
    09 IBC, IRC, IPC, IMC, IFGC, IECC & IEBC adopted statewide by NM Const Ind Div. '03 IFC adopted statewide by the State Fire Marshal's Office. NM uses the 2009 NM Codes which are based on the 2009 I-codes and amendments. New Mexico Construction Industries has adopted the 2009 codes effective January 1, 2011 (mandatory July 1, 2011). They can be accessed at http://www.rld.state.nm.us/cid/rules-and-law.htm
    • 2009 International Building Code
    • 2009 International Energy Conservation Code
    • 2009 International Existing Building Code
    • 2003 International Fire Code
    • 2009 International Fuel Gas Code
    • 2009 International Mechanical Code
    • 2009 International Plumbing Code
    • 2009 International Residential Code
    I don't know where you "pulled" that list from, but it wasn't from the link you referenced/cited, and AFAIK, not from a NM State "official" site, citation, or source, and I suspect some 3rd party site, certainly not the official publishing source for the NM Codes.

    Plumbing & Mechanical are Uniform Codes based. Today's date is April 1, 2011. I snipped NMAC Code - which deletes the chapters referenced from the 2009 IRC. NM Plumbing and Mechanical Codes have been and continue to be "Uniform" codes based.

    Here's an "official" memo from mid-February, director of NM's CID : http://www.rld.state.nm.us/cid/PDFs/...tification.pdf

    which closes: "If you have any questions regarding the applicability of the codes, please contact Heather Winkel at 505-476-4686."

    P on that.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 04-01-2011 at 12:04 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Gas Under Concrete

    Glenn Clements,

    By the way, not to go too far afield here, but if you had really a clue about the history of the New Mexico "Code Wars" or Infamous "Code fights" of 2002-2003, the reasoning behind NM maintaining as many ANSI-Accredited Standard Codes as they do, WHY ANSI Standards are so highly regarded (no one industry or special interest group allowed to cast more than 1/3 vote), the significant distinctions with IMPORTANT differences regarding the U- and the I-Codes, etc.: you MIGHT have a clue how stupendous your assertions are (and that stupendous "list" from an unnammed, uncredited source).

    It is also obvious the Infamous September 2008 I-Code Council Fire (Marshals, alegedly "funded" via sprinkler mfg's) "Mandatory Sprinklers/Residential" notorious "loaded voting" event, and its importance regarding the NM "Code Wars" Home Builders, Fire Authorities vs. CID in New Mexico is beyond you.

    I'm sure the OP, being from NM (should) know which Codes are incorporated into the NM Codes - and where and how to properly ask and get an answer to the gas fitting quesiton he poses, be it for CNG, LP, raw, or utility supplied, "refined" Natural Gas - and that it will be based upon ANSI standard codes as adopted and ammended by New Mexico, including the applicable NON-I-Codes (and sections) which have actually been adopted and have been adopted for many years.

    IMO you are without a clue regarding NM requirements for safety, or its code construction, basis, and sources (despite my having provided you with authoritative references and official links and resources before your "p" post and stupendously long meaningless "list". I haven't seen enough from you to determine if you might have even a slight clue in general, but with only 5 posts, two of them here, and THIS ONE: http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...tml#post164061

    I'm having my doubts, despite what you claim in your profile.

    If you wanted to "get a clue" Steve Crespin, a sitting member of the Commission, could give you an EARFUL, or the "short version" (assuming you had a minimal clue to begin with) which is about six minutes worth.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 04-01-2011 at 02:01 PM. Reason: missed an "n" in GleNN.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Gas Under Concrete

    Jeez, HG you are getting more crotchety with every post!

    Has anyone even given consideration that a utility company is not governed by the typical codes as we think of? The AHJ will default to the utility if it is before the meter. If the pipe is going under the sidewalk before it gets to the meter then the utility needs to be contacted. If it is after the meter then the prevailing building code will cover it, or the local AHJ.

    HG, get some fiber in that diet! It will make you feel better.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  8. #8
    Glenn Clements's Avatar
    Glenn Clements Guest

    Default Re: Gas Under Concrete

    I guess being a retired eng with all those credentials you can't take anything on face value. Here is a link you might want to check out, but based on your know every thing attitude and opinions presented in this and other post I have read previously it won't matter.

    http://www.iccsafe.org/gr/Documents/stateadoptions.pdf

    True NM does not list its building codes as I codes but they are none the less based on the I codes, according to ICC and they are referenced through out the "official site".

    And yes most if not all states have amendments to adopted codes.

    Besides whats in a name, the minimum standard code in Ga. for residential construction is the 2006 IRC, but it is listed in state law as the Georgia State Minimum Standard One and Two Family Dwelling Code,it is still the IRC regardless of what you call it.

    You are right that I do not have a clue, nor do I give a RA, about the NM code wars.

    I only responded to the original post to give a little input as to what the IFGC stated and sugested contacting the local AHJ.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Gas Under Concrete

    Well Scott, frustrated with and low tolerance to bogus references inapplicable to the OP perhaps, low fiber definately not. Low blood sugar most likely.

    Despite your contribution being irrelevant to the OP, I'm not going to rub your nose in how it wouldn't and couldn't apply to what has been shared in the orignal post.

    If Glenn whatever wants to continue to make an ass out of himself and spout moronic foolishness, so be it. I'll consider the fabricated source, same nut calls residental service entrance conductors "High Voltage" and doesn't know a communications cable from a LV power supply.

    Glenn,

    Apparently you've lived a sheltered life in cracker land. As a self-proclaimed technical, AHJ, plans, and code inspector, the very idea that you have no clue who/what IAMPO is, the Uniform Plumbing Code is, the Uniform Mechanical Code is, frankly is absurd.

    You're barking up the wrong tree - you're completely off-base, and completely wrong. You claimed NM has adopted a whole list of I-codes its not true. NM has not under any stretch of the imagination adotped I-based code language regarding anything pertaining to the OP.

    New Mexico hasn't adopted the IMC, the IPC, nor any gas, mechanical, electrical or plumbing chapter or section of any I-code on the subject. New Mexico likes ANSI Standards, and the Standards making process. New Mexico likes stri, ngent safety codes, not cheapo, faster and cheaper to build, unfit for the region I-codes or I-code chapters where "they" pertain to Gas fitting, LP, Plumbing, Mechanical, etc.

    The selective portions of the IRC and IBC which have been adopted are heavily ammended including MANY deletions (entire CHAPTERS), neither has then, now, nor to-be-effective, includes the gas, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, etc. chapters.

    You are uninformed, and relying on incorrect, unofficial, sales material, and haven't even read its own (in red at the top) disclaimer! I found it dripping with untruthful errors. You obviously have neither experience nor educated yourself on the matter, and apparently never worked north of your state or west of texas.

    You've been provided with authoritative, official links (with the offiical links) to the actual information, some has been actually quoted for you, Code, Title, Chapter, Section, and subsection; and resources including the names and direct dial phone numbers to the State program directors and other official resources.

    Someone having claimed to have decades of experience and can't read a simple paragraph, or follow a simple adopted code (statutory construction) citation reference!

    Perhaps you'd be surprised to learn how FEW states have adopted the model I-Codes withOUT significant (redactive) ammendments including deletions of the plumbing, electrical, gas, mechanical, and other chapters & references! Perhaps if you had some actual knowledge of the history.

    I'll just have to remember, can lead a horse to water... but I'll draw the line at leading a horse's azz, and I have no need to collect rats let alone RAs.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 04-01-2011 at 08:21 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Gas Under Concrete

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Clements View Post
    I guess being a retired eng with all those credentials you can't take anything on face value..
    That implies there was any value on "its" face.

    I don't find that to be the case with you or your contributions here. No "face value", and no value whatsoever. Just pissing on the forum, especially with five screens worth of a useless baseless "list" of meaningless information that (drum roll) doesn't prove your point, and is useless.

    You are completely wrong.

    New Mexico bases plumbing, mechanical, gas fitting, upon the IAMPO codes (UMC, UPC) which are MORE rigorous, and more restrictive. New Mexico has NOT adopted the IMC or the IPC, nor any of the mechanical, gas, or plumbing chapters of the I-Codes.


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