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  1. #1
    Stanley Chow's Avatar
    Stanley Chow Guest

    Default Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    What do you guys think about using the hot water tank to support the gas piping? YES...the screws do penetrate into this "pressure vessel".

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Chow View Post
    What do you guys think about using the hot water tank to support the gas piping? YES...the screws do penetrate into this "pressure vessel".
    Nuts.
    Plus, voids the water heater warranty, no doubt.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Darwinism.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Wow, just when you think you've seen it all....

    rick


  5. #5
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Chow View Post
    What do you guys think about using the hot water tank to support the gas piping? YES...the screws do penetrate into this "pressure vessel".
    Unless the manufactures installation instructions say it is not permissible I don't see anything wrong with it. The screws are not penetrating the "pressure vessel"....they are attached to the sheet metal covering. I have installed several boilers with sheet metal coverings and it is standard practice to attach conduit and flex to the covers with screws.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Chow View Post
    YES...the screws do penetrate into this "pressure vessel".
    Just curious how you verified that?

    Did you unscrew one screw and have a leak?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  7. #7
    Stanley Chow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    If you take a closer look at he photo, they are not small "zip" screws used to hold sheetmetal pieces together. These are larger screws used to anchor the pipe support to the "pressure vessel". Any deeper and it's KA-BOOM!! This is plain stupid and goes against common sense.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Chow View Post
    If you take a closer look at he photo, they are not small "zip" screws used to hold sheetmetal pieces together.
    Stanley,

    Soooo ... how long are those screws?

    I know I've been around a while and still have things to learn, so please, if you would, tell me how to determine the length of a screw without taking it out. That will save me a lot of work when inspecting shutters, windows, and other things where I need to know the embedment depth of anchor screws.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  9. #9
    Stanley Chow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Jerry, my reponse was directed to you. it was directed to James. Simply stated, you cannot reasonably assume that short screws were used to hold up a pipe support....right? And I would not remove the screws because I would have to re-insert the screws and possibly cause damage in the process...and be liable.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Chow View Post
    Simply stated, you cannot reasonably assume that short screws were used to hold up a pipe support....right?
    Correct, and that was my point.

    So, how could you "reasonably assume" ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Chow View Post
    YES...the screws do penetrate into this "pressure vessel".
    You cannot "reasonably ASSUME" ANYTING related to those screws, yet you did.

    My guess is that your "un"reasonably assumed that the screws were long enough to penetrate the tank, and that such assumption will come back and bite you in the behind.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Without the obvious evidence of a leak, I think I would have to assume the screws did not penetrate the tank. Seems to me there is about an inch and a half to 2 inch space between the outer shell and the water tank.

    I've seen some water heaters with some pretty big dents being sold at the scratch and dent aisle in Lowes and Home Depot.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    The jacket on most of these water heaters have a space of 1" to 2" deep for the insulation between the jacket and tank. The screws used would not in any way be able to penetrate the tank on their own. The installer would have to drill a pilot hole into the tank for the screws to enter it. And if that was the case you will notice a leak. Even if by some freak chance the guy used self drilling screws long enough to penetrate the tank you will have a leak.

    I have not secured gas piping like this, but I have secured condensate pipe to a water heater jacket like this... well not the exact set up but I have used sheet metal screws and a pipe clamp to secure a condensate pipe.

    So again if the screw did enter the tank you will have a LEAK no matter what. So if there is no LEAK the screws are only in the outer jacket.


  13. #13
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    Cool Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Sorry guys but I'm with Ron on this. I've done it a bunch of times and never had a problem with leaks because I use short screws.

    The larger issues here is support. Those appear to be wood screws, which tend to work loose when used in sheetmetal. If so, I would expect this bracket to get sloppy and eventually fail. It's not a very strong purchase point for bracing that pipe. I have no problem using conduit clips to hold CSST or wiring snug to the outer jacket of a water tank this is a weak brace. BTW, they sell a right angle bracket for all thread rod that would allow attachment at the top of the tank rather than the side. At least that would put the load in shear rather than tension.

    FYI, you should use backing stop nuts at both ends on all thread rod.

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Does adding support to lines in this manner have any effect on the tank manufacturer's warranty?

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    I pulled out the installation packet for the water heater I replaced a couple years ago. About the only thing I found was NOT to use a thermal blanket, and NOT to solder fittings at the top of the tank. I could find nothing regarding attaching something to the side of the water heater.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    I pulled out the installation packet for the water heater I replaced a couple years ago. About the only thing I found was NOT to use a thermal blanket, and NOT to solder fittings at the top of the tank. I could find nothing regarding attaching something to the side of the water heater.
    I did the same. Oddly, it did not ban a thermal blanket. It just gave warnings about how to do it (don't block the burner, etc.).
    The only thing I saw that could possibly ban the attachment was a general "no alteration" prohibition. I suppose one could make the argument that drilling holes in the jacket to mount something is an "alteration".
    If I feel the urge, just for fun, I might write to a manufacturer and ask. Or, someone else could, and then I wouldn't have to...I'm feeling rather lazy, as usual.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
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  17. #17
    Rick Baxter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Those appear to be Hex Head Sheet metal Screws. Notice the slot for a blade screwdriver. There is nothing wrong with what he has here, based on this picture.


  18. #18
    Dennis Krouse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Chow View Post
    If you take a closer look at he photo, they are not small "zip" screws used to hold sheetmetal pieces together. These are larger screws used to anchor the pipe support to the "pressure vessel". Any deeper and it's KA-BOOM!! This is plain stupid and goes against common sense.
    I'm still trying to figure out the KA-BOOM part


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Gas pipe support at Water Heater

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Baxter View Post
    Those appear to be Hex Head Sheet metal Screws. Notice the slot for a blade screwdriver. There is nothing wrong with what he has here, based on this picture.
    No, I don't agree. I agree those are probably short sheet metal screws, but the sheet metal isn't strong enough to support a bracket with that much leverage. If you undid the clamp on the gas line, could you bend that arm down with minimal effort? It's a useless bracket, except it serves as a standoff.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
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