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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Default Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    I did a home inspection on a flipped home where they had a licensed master plumber put in a new bathroom. I hit them on the S-trap under the bathroom sink (first picture). The agent asked to have the S-trap changed to a P trap. The second picture shows it is now an S trap with a vent. I also reported the vent stack is too short because it's below the drain flange.
    By the way. They could have used a regular plumbing vent through the roof but they didn't.
    Can somebody tell me if this plumber is all washed up?

    P1010205 (Small).JPG

    P1010190 (Small).JPG

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    Last edited by Daniel Rogers; 06-28-2011 at 01:49 PM. Reason: typo
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    I don't know what's permitted in your state but that wouldn't fly here. I'm also going to venture a guess that the vent is not rated for that application.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Chicago
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    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    Air admittance valves (AAV) are not allowed here in Illinois. But it might be allowed in your state. If it is allowed the second trap is now a P-trap with an AAV installed, and the AAV manufactures state that they only need to be 6" above the trap.

    Best bet is to call you local plumbing inspector and ask him if AAV valves are allowed and if the one you have pictured is installed correctly.


  4. #4
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    26,246

    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    As Ron said, that is an AAV, and that looks like it might be an Oatey brand AAV. The Studor Vent brand requires the vent to be a minimum of 4-1/2" above the weir of the trap, I can't remember what Oatey requires.

    Installing an AAV is the repair for an 'S' trap ... in areas which allow AAVs. Some states do not allow AAVs, such as Illinois, however, most areas do allow AAVs.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
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    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    Thanks Guys.
    I've seen lots of AAV's used here. I don't know about mfg. specs. I believe they are ok to use in Virginia but lots of plumbers use them as shortcuts.
    Ron I've read your other post and respect your knowledge on plumbing issues. Thank you

    When "functional" is not good enough, Call Final Analysis Home Inspections, Virginia Beach VA

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
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    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    The increase in size of the tail piece extension, trap, and "trap arm" has a problem, i.e. the developed length (trap arm) is too short. 2x trade size minimum developed length/distance from vent. Now you have a crown vented (AAV) type situation.

    If this is a shorter vanity/lav with a dropped bowl not a vessle atop, which I assume so, looks to be okay as far as maximum fixture outlet (24")distance/elevation to trap weir, don't see the gasket for the faux marble top/sink.

    Slip fitting/joint well above trap (extending tail piece below the pop-up assembly), mixing of materials, differing expansion rates, etc. PB, metal, PVC, and CPVC might also be of issue. Tail not vertical - wrong fitting from trappiece. Questioned acceptance of thinwalled PB tailpiece/pop-up assembly, which was either too short or cut to begin with. Would have preferred to see a testtee or C.O. for servicing clogs at the trap arm/change in direction, Trap plug not so servicable this close to the floor of the vanity.

    Stops should remain servicable, operable, and accessible.

    Holes should be stopped, blocked, and covered.

    Am unfamiliar with the blue stain/goo. The correct PVC primer should have stained violet/purple, as in the first photo, not blue, as in the second.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 06-29-2011 at 10:38 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    wow HG, this is indeed technically exhaustive and you are technically correct. But this would make a real estate agent have a brain bleed.

    When "functional" is not good enough, Call Final Analysis Home Inspections, Virginia Beach VA

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chicago
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    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    Yea I did not look closely at the photo. According to Illinois plumbing code The trap can not be larger in diameter than the drain it is serving. So the trap needs to be either 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" depending on the size of the tail piece.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Atlanta, Georgia
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    1,078

    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Rogers View Post
    wow HG, this is indeed technically exhaustive and you are technically correct. But this would make a real estate agent have a brain bleed.
    If it is wrong, it is wrong. No need to pamper the silly agents. Fix it correctly once and never have to do it again.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  10. #10
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey View Post
    If it is wrong, it is wrong. No need to pamper the silly agents. Fix it correctly once and never have to do it again.
    Not trying to tip any conscious thought but for most inspectors the Realtor IS the answer to all. Must not upset the apple cart or you will have less apples to take home. Everyone loves it when I bring this up. Just imagine a world where inspectors never had to be cocerned about the ultimate upset and went out and marketed themselves to the world to get ther inspections instead of throwing it all in one direction, to the Realtors.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
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    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey View Post
    If it is wrong, it is wrong. No need to pamper the silly agents. Fix it correctly once and never have to do it again.
    Oh NO, I don't care how much their brain bleeds. Not my problem. I told them to fire the freak "master plumber" that did this and get a real plumber in there.

    When "functional" is not good enough, Call Final Analysis Home Inspections, Virginia Beach VA

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
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    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Not trying to tip any conscious thought but for most inspectors the Realtor IS the answer to all. Must not upset the apple cart or you will have less apples to take home. Everyone loves it when I bring this up. Just imagine a world where inspectors never had to be cocerned about the ultimate upset and went out and marketed themselves to the world to get ther inspections instead of throwing it all in one direction, to the Realtors.
    I've been inspecting since 1988, before anyone knew what a home inspection was in Virginia Beach. It was a tough road building public awareness because in the early years the agents tried to control the inspector. My epiphany back then was ther are more poeple than there are agents. So I started an all out campaign marketing to the general public so I could circumvent this dilemma. It worked! To this day 99.9 percent of my work comes from direct advertising and client referrals. 15 years ago I averaged 12 inspections per week when there was no competition. Now there are many moonlighters in the business and I'm still averaging 10 per week which is fine by me. Ive had many an agent call me a deal killer and tell me "you'll never get any work from me". I just reply with "thank you" and walk away. Typically those type of agents don't sell much anyway.

    When "functional" is not good enough, Call Final Analysis Home Inspections, Virginia Beach VA

  13. #13
    Craig Cook's Avatar
    Craig Cook Guest

    Default Re: Is this S-trap OK or is plumber all washed up?

    When my real estate license was active and I actively sold real estate, I used the toughest inspectors for my home buyers, to help reduce the purchase price. Having a construction background, I was not afraid of a tough inspection. Real estate agents that are afraid of tough inspections are afraid of working for their commission. a thorough inspection provides a better home/price in the long run. Keep up the good work.


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