Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo. area.
    Posts
    276

    Default Proper Sediment Trap?

    Is this a proper sediment trap? Usually the tee is installed on its end so that the fuel gas travels downward to the tee, and is then directed off in a horizontal direction while any contaminants continue on down into the trap. This looks more like a sediment container that wouldn't necessarily trap everything coming along with the fuel gas. Thanks a lot for your help with this.

    Similar Threads:
    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Last edited by Michael Chambers; 08-17-2011 at 08:31 PM.
    Member Benefits1

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    No, that is not a proper trap.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    2,481

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Chambers View Post
    Is this a proper sediment trap? Usually the tee is installed on its end so that the fuel gas travels downward to the tee, and is then directed off in a horizontal direction while any contaminants continue on down into the trap. This looks more like a sediment container that wouldn't necessarily trap everything coming along with the fuel gas. Thanks a lot for your help with this.
    Looks more like a drip leg to me.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    The pictured is neither an "effective" sediment trap nor drip "leg".

    The trap should be constructed under (to catch sediment) the tee installed in an orentiation so as to change the direction of the flow of the gas by 90 degrees.

    When using a "tee" this would indicate a change of direction for the flow of gas FROM the RUN of the tee TO the BRANCH of the tee.

    The gas supply is from above, the optimal would be after a ground joint union appliance side of the gas valve, to a tee run at the point where the gas flow remains downward and therefore makes a 90 degree change of direction (to horizontal towards the appliance), and a nipple at the downward (RUN) outlet of the tee of at least 3" long (present minimum) and a plug/cap to serve as the trap.

    The trap needs to be from the run end of the tee below the gas change of direction via the branch of the tee.

    That is to say, not as a " T " orientation as pictured,
    but as a " |--> ".

    In your picture, the tee does not provide a change of direction in the flow of gas, and the nipple has been installed in the branch of the tee, where it will NOT function as an EFFECTIVE trap.

    It (the tee) should be after a union following the shut-off valve and prior to a change of direction in the flow of gas from its downward run.

    Although current ammendments to GA codes DO provide for an EFFECTIVE trap, it seems this has been a difficult concept to grasp in the field.

    Georgia has proposed an ammendment for 2012, which includes an ammended diagram. It does diagram quite well, actually applies the intention of the present language as ammended, and should clarify the issue for you.

    I've attached the three page pdf regarding the proposed 2012 ammendments, see pages 2 & 3 (diagram) regarding 408.4.

    It can be accessed directly from DCA via this link (clickable) here:

    http://www.dca.state.ga.us/developme...SCACapprvd.pdf

    HTH.

    P.S. it might be noted that the prior version GA code (2000) and its ammendments, defered to NFPA 54 regarding the specifics, and diagrams therein.

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-18-2011 at 11:05 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    Mr Watson
    The amendments you provided are really good, but it is for Georgia, the OP states he is in the St Louis area.

    Did you perhaps see GA on my post and thought it was for the OP?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    Proper sediment trap...... not in my opinion.
    I finally gave up on writing this one up since nobody would back me up on it in my area.
    I wish the code commentary was enforceable, or that manufacturers would specify exactly how they be installed. (pictures/ diagrams don't count in my opinion since they don't say that's the only way).


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    Mr. Cantrell,

    Yes, I see that the OP, has his location as "St. Louis, MO Area".

    Inititally, I had thought I had read it simply as a town, (IIRC, "marietta" with out any state designation, and presumed, at that time, Georgia"). At the time, I went forth, with ASS-U-MEd Georgia references. Perhaps I had read another post which member simply had "marietta" (no state) listed and confused the issue for me - perhaps I had "Marietta" on the brain.

    The references were mere courtesy, the "wrongness" is still appropriately described, irregardless, there is no change of direction and the trap is not at the RUN of the "tee".. Whether on the "Illinois" side of the Mississippi for the "Area" or the "Missouri" side of the "Area", the gas plumbing and trap is still "wrong" for the same reasons - only the citations differ, be they Illinois Plumbing Code, NFPA 54, or IFGC referenced. The former GAMA made it quite clear the intent and requirement for same as well in numerous "position statements", etc.

    Every such appliance manufacturer makes reference to NFPA 54, either directly as same or as the National (not international) fuel gas code, via its assocaited ANSI standard number, and in such instructions indicates the rigorness of same must be abided (proscribed) in the installation, and any local code requirements should they be more restrictive.

    Therefore the associated references at the time of manufacture to the associated edition date of the Standard (NFPA 54) would be incorporated into the instuctions - and thus be referenced.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-18-2011 at 08:12 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Looks more like a drip leg to me.
    Looks like it was "supposed to be" a sediment trap, but it is not even close to a proper sediment trap.

    *IF* that is the lowest point in the gas line, then it would function as a drip leg as that is what drip legs are like ... but I doubt that is the lowest point in the gas line. And even it were the lowest point in the gas line, unless the gas was defined as "wet" gas, no drip leg is required.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo. area.
    Posts
    276

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Mr Watson
    The amendments you provided are really good, but it is for Georgia, the OP states he is in the St Louis area................
    Hey, no harm done! The illustration makes it very clear, and I learned some new terminology in "run of the tee" and "branch of the tee". Tee's are always difficult to talk about with any real accuracy in the description of what you're trying to convey, and having that terminology makes it a lot easier. Besides, although I'm on the Missouri side of the river, Georgia's only over on the other side, just a little farther over than Illinois!

    I did find it interesting that GA makes it very clear that they'll allow the sediment trap to be of any length. I'm used to it having to be of 3 inch minimum length.

    Thanks to all for your help with this!


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    I figured out where I acquired "Marietta" on my brain at the time I considered and composed my first response!

    At the time I had two posts and two profiles opened at the same time. Michael Chambers, the OP on this topic discussion, and Michael Bronner (roof rafter framing splicing), and got the two Michaels' "locations" confused, when I went a-sourcing applicable code references specific for locale of the original poster (sorry, wrong Michael!) when composing my first response.

    Ah the perils of aging and multi-tasking.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    Mr Watson
    I wasn't saying it was inaccurate or anything like that. I was just curious as to why you posted a GA code.
    Thanks for clearing it up.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Near Philly, Pa.
    Posts
    1,643

    Cool Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    It's a handle used to hold back when unscrewing the ground union. Otherwise, not a trap, sediment or otherwise.

    The plumber could have put that tee right under the shutoff and come off the snout or 'bull' of the tee towards the appliance and been fine. This is going to lengths to do it wrong the first time. Traps must incorporate a 90 degree turn so gravity catches the dirt and collects it in the trap. In a 'running trap' as shown, particulates can easily hope over that pothole in the road and still clog the valve.

    Why is all the pipe so rusty? High indoor Rh%?

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo. area.
    Posts
    276

    Default Re: Proper Sediment Trap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Harper View Post
    ...............................Why is all the pipe so rusty? High indoor Rh%?
    There was a lot of water getting into this basement, witness the 9x9 tile flooring coming up in this photo. Having a misplaced sediment trap was the least of the problems with this house.

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •