Results 1 to 5 of 5
  1. #1
    Jeff Rost's Avatar
    Jeff Rost Guest

    Default Does the IPC now allow Master Plumbers to install Residential Fire Sprinklers

    Question above, we are still under 2003 code but had a plumber come ask about it yesterday.

    In my TX research the TX board says for a multipurpose residential system you have to have an endorsement from them.

    Not having the new code books here I"m curious since 2009 was attempting to force fire sprinklers in new R construction. I'm aware that Perry signed a law saying its not legal to force in TX.

    What we are wanting to know is if Master Plumbers are accepted in the 2009 or newer codes as installers just by the fact that they have a Master in their state.

    Thanks, Jeff

    Similar Threads:
    Inspection Referral

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: Does the IPC now allow Master Plumbers to install Residential Fire Sprinklers

    Jeff,

    The code does not address "who" is allowed to install them, only "how" they are to be installed.

    The "who" is allowed to install them is left up to the licensing authority in the state/county/etc. the work is done in.

    You would need to check the licensing requirements in Texas to answer your question.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Blacklands Of Texas
    Posts
    82

    Default Re: Does the IPC now allow Master Plumbers to install Residential Fire Sprinklers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Rost View Post
    Question above, we are still under 2003 code but had a plumber come ask about it yesterday.

    In my TX research the TX board says for a multipurpose residential system you have to have an endorsement from them.

    Not having the new code books here I"m curious since 2009 was attempting to force fire sprinklers in new R construction. I'm aware that Perry signed a law saying its not legal to force in TX.

    What we are wanting to know is if Master Plumbers are accepted in the 2009 or newer codes as installers just by the fact that they have a Master in their state.

    Thanks, Jeff
    Hi Jeff,

    They don't make it easy to find but if you look at the Texas State Board of Plumbing Examiners (TSBPE) WEB site this is the link to the laws Texas State Board of Plumbing Examiners. Of interest to your question is:

    Sec. 1301.3565. ENDORSEMENT: MULTIPURPOSE RESIDENTIAL FIRE
    PROTECTION SPRINKLER SPECIALIST.
    Text of subsection effective on June 01, 2010
    (a) A person may not engage in the installation of a multipurpose residential fire protection sprinkler system that uses a single piping system to provide potable water for fire protection sprinklers and for domestic plumbing fixtures and appliances unless the person:
    (1) is licensed under this chapter as a master plumber or journeyman plumber; and
    (2) holds an endorsement issued under this section.
    The endorsement requires even a Master Plumber to take the required specialized training and a test to obtain that endorsement.

    Hope that helps!

    Knowledge is power, but sharing knowledge brings peace!
    www.psinspection.com
    Texas License# 7593

  4. #4
    Jeff Rost's Avatar
    Jeff Rost Guest

    Default Re: Does the IPC now allow Master Plumbers to install Residential Fire Sprinklers

    Not having the newest code books here I just wanted to verify if anything had changed as we typically allow something thats in the newest editions even though we typically only change editions about every 9-12 years or so on average.

    I had found all the data in the TX board as was quoted and that was what I was going buy but wanted to know if anything else was out there that I'd missed.

    I see you've both found what I had, nothing in IPC about who, and the TX board requires an endorsement and training. There was the question of what multipurpose actually meant but our interpretation here was that it meant residential tied in to the potable water system.

    I MUCH appreciate the verifications!

    Thanks, Jeff


  5. #5
    Arthur Gould's Avatar
    Arthur Gould Guest

    Default Re: Does the IPC now allow Master Plumbers to install Residential Fire Sprinklers

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmanuelScanlan View Post
    The endorsement requires even a Master Plumber to take the required specialized training and a test to obtain that endorsement.

    Hope that helps!
    To say companies that install fire sprinkler systems are heavily regulated is an understatement. We're probably the most regulated trade in the construction industry which is great because it keeps guys like me fully employed.

    Texas Department of Insurance
    State Fire Marshal’s Office, Mail Code 112-FM
    FIRE SPRINKLER LICENSE & TEST INFORMATION

    For one and two family dwellings the company must be licensed:

    Sprinkler Certificate of Registration–Dwelling (SCR-D)
    Each firm engaged in the business of planning, selling, installing, maintaining, servicing and certifying a one- or two-family dwelling fire protection sprinkler systems must have an SCR-D.
    Finding a master plumber will be relatively easy. The problem will be finding the Responsible Managing Employee that will hold the license.

    Responsible Managing Employee-Dwelling
    (RME-D)
    An RME-D licensee is permitted to plan, sell, install, maintain, service, and certify all parts of a one- or two-family dwelling fire sprinkler system (This licensee must pass the NICET Sprinkler Layout Level II test, the Sprinkler Dwelling TFM09 test and the Sprinkler Statute & Rules TFM08 test
    NICET stand for the National Institute for Certification in Engineering Technologies and they are a non-profit division of the National Society of Professional Engineers. NICET does not offer training or education they are a testing agency only.

    What the test is can be found here Water-Based (formerly Automatic Sprinkler System) Layout and if someone thinks a couple months of study can prepare someone for this test, even for Level II, they are mistaken.

    Testing will take two days generally starting around 8:30 in the morning and lasting until around 3:30 in the afternoon and will cover in detail all types of systems from high rise buildings, standpipes, underground installation, fire pumps, tanks, fire water ponds, earthquake sway bracing, hangers, piping materials, hydraulic calculations and a host of other subjects.

    From the registry the minimum work experience required for certification is as follows:

    Note 2. NICET certification is awarded at four levels in the two types of technician certification programs presently offered.
    For work elements programs, the following amount of work experience is required for the award of certification:
    Level I: Limited relevant work experience
    Level II: 2 years of experience relevant to the field/subfield of certification
    Level III: 5 years of experience relevant to the field/subfield of certification.
    Level IV: 10 years of experience relevant to the field/subfield plus demonstration of senior level responsibility on significant activities related to the area of certification.
    That is a minimum of two years and to be honest most of us took three or four years to prepare. To begin your studies you can start with the basic Automatic Sprinkler Systems Handbook consisting of 1074 information packed pages for $209 which covers only sprinklers. There's also the Handbook for Stationary Fire Pumps for $122.50 and then add standards on underground installation, tanks, standpipes and the list goes on.

    There's guys like me, I hold a Level IV certification, who have spent a lifetime at it and still don't know it all.

    Point I am making is even for a Level II it is not easy.

    To take the test the applicant need a verifier who holds a Level III, IV or registered professional engineer who certifies the applicant has the relevant work experience to take the test. There aren't any fast short cuts.

    The application for the FIRE SPRINKLER RESPONSIBLE MANAGING EMPLOYEE (RME) LICENSE.

    If the RME leaves employment there's the Licensed Employee Termination Notice that must be sent in whereupon the employer has to hire another (I think it is 30 or 60 days) or the company loses their license.

    We don't come cheap an RME is going to cost between $40k and $75k/year depending on the level of experience. Even now the industry is experiencing a severe shortage of certified technicians and if I had to guess I would say we're suffering a 2% unemployment rate. A level II will run at least $40k, he will want a company vehicle and the company will pick up medical insurance and don't forget the 401k we've come to expect.

    A snapshot of the 2010 Salary Survey just completed by NICET.

    We're not installers, I couldn't put a thread on a 1" piece of pipe if my life depended on... I and my ilk are office types only. We be pure overhead.

    By the time all costs are considered an RME will run at least $1,000/week to employ and how many residential homes will a plumbing company have to install to pay that overhead in a year? If all he does is one home per month the RME alone would add $5,000 on to the cost of each system.

    I wouldn't look to find many plumbing companies getting into this line of work anytime soon in Texas. Like I said, finding a master plumber will be the easy part.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •