Results 1 to 38 of 38
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Daniel Island, SC.
    Posts
    230

    Default Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Hello,

    Is there a plumbing code that stipulates while standing in a tub that the hot water faucet must be on the left and the cold water faucet on the right. I am having an argument with a plumber about installation.

    Jim Murphy

    Similar Threads:
    2018 ASHI InspectionWorld

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by JIM MURPHY View Post
    Hello,

    Is there a plumbing code that stipulates while standing in a tub that the hot water faucet must be on the left and the cold water faucet on the right. I am having an argument with a plumber about installation.

    Jim Murphy
    Yes there is

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Daniel Island, SC.
    Posts
    230

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Can you give me the code please or what it states

    Thanks, Jim


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    2006 IRC
    P2722.2 Hot water. Fixture fittings and faucets that are supplied
    with both hot and cold water shall be installed and
    adjusted so that the left-hand side of thewater temperature control
    represents the flow of hot water when facing the outlet.
    Exception: Shower and tub/shower mixing valves conforming
    to ASSE 1016 or CSA B125, where the water temperature
    control corresponds to the markings on the device.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Daniel Island, SC.
    Posts
    230

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Thanks alot, I guess he will be taking the tub out to get the lines right!

    Jim


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    2,303

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by JIM MURPHY View Post
    Thanks alot, I guess he will be taking the tub out to get the lines right!

    Jim
    Not if the fill spout is on the other side of the tub! Or if when the water heater fill valve is closed all water flow (Hot & Cold) stops. What about when the fill valve is on the right or the left and can be used from inside as well as outside? Guess he will just have to mark the valves H & C.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  7. #7
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    I agree with Vern.....it is not really a big deal as long as the knobs are identified. If I was the plumber the OP would lose that argument.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    548

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    If its the type of valve that is single handle and to turn it on you start off cold and keep turning get t to get hotter after its on, it doesn't not matter.

    In lots of cases with single valve type tub and shower valves, you do not have to redo the pipes, its as simple as an adjustment on the cartridge to get the hot on the left and cold on the right.

    Now if it is a two handle set up the hot needs to be on the left and cold on the right, but a tempering valve must be installed as well to prevent scalding.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    I agree with Vern.....it is not really a big deal as long as the knobs are identified. If I was the plumber the OP would lose that argument.
    James,

    You would lose ... two knobs does not meet the exception.

    The implication in the OP post, and in your post, is two separate controls, and for that installation Ron was correct - and you would lose the argument.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    2,303

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    James,

    You would lose ... two knobs does not meet the exception.

    The implication in the OP post, and in your post, is two separate controls, and for that installation Ron was correct - and you would lose the argument.
    Is this an accurate quote?:
    2006 IRC
    P2722.2 Hot water. Fixture fittings and faucets that are supplied
    with both hot and cold water shall be installed and
    adjusted so that the left-hand side of thewater temperature control
    represents the flow of hot water when facing the outlet.
    Exception: Shower and tub/shower mixing valves conforming
    to ASSE 1016 or CSA B125, where the water temperature
    control corresponds to the markings on the device.


    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    930

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by JIM MURPHY View Post
    Hello,

    Is there a plumbing code that stipulates while standing in a tub that the hot water faucet must be on the left and the cold water faucet on the right. I am having an argument with a plumber about installation.

    Jim Murphy
    A Burning Issue With Codes, on theplumber.com
    Let me guess, The Plumber is Mexican.

    They always put them backwards for some reason.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    (I added bold and underlining)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Is this an accurate quote?:
    2006 IRC
    P2722.2 Hot water. Fixture fittings and faucets that are supplied
    with both hot and cold water shall be installed and
    adjusted so that the left-hand side of the water temperature control
    represents the flow of hot water when facing the outlet.
    Exception: Shower and tub/shower mixing valves conforming
    to ASSE 1016 or CSA B125, where the water temperature
    control corresponds to the markings on the device.
    Those are SEPARATE valves, not "mixing valves". You could create the same effect as two handle faucets with two ball valves and piping run to a spout where the water from the TWO valves "mix".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    They always put them backwards for some reason.
    When a plumber works from the 'backside', they need to remember that they are 'working backward' so to speak (like a mirror image) - most do remember that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #14
    Russel Ray's Avatar
    Russel Ray Guest

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    I agree with Vern.....it is not really a big deal as long as the knobs are identified. If I was the plumber the OP would lose that argument.
    Out here in ESL country, knobs that are marked C stand for "caliente," which means "hot"!


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Russel Ray View Post
    Out here in ESL country, knobs that are marked C stand for "caliente," which means "hot"!
    Russel Ray? Wow, that's a name I haven't seen in a while! Where you been?

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  16. #16
    Daniel Mosier's Avatar
    Daniel Mosier Guest

    Talking Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    The requirement that the left side is the hot is because most people are right-handed and thus operate the right handle first. I'm not sure why this is reversed (NOT backwards) with Mexicans but I can state that almost all the Mexicans I know are left-handed, so maybe that's why they have hot and cold faucets reversed.


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Mosier View Post
    The requirement that the left side is the hot is because most people are right-handed and thus operate the right handle first. I'm not sure why this is reversed (NOT backwards) with Mexicans but I can state that almost all the Mexicans I know are left-handed, so maybe that's why they have hot and cold faucets reversed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Russel Ray View Post
    Out here in ESL country, knobs that are marked C stand for "caliente," which means "hot"!
    I had not thought about it, Ray, but that could be a contributing factor for those who speak Spanish.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    The right handed idea may or may not have been one reason though I dought it.

    I would think that the rationality for the standardization is strictly based on not having the user injured by the hot water.
    Think of the blind, near sighted or someone with any type of visual impairment. Marking the valve would do nothing for them (unless in brail though seldom used on faucets) . There by the necessity for a uniform standard.

    None of us think about which side of the street to drive on in the U.S.A., but go to St Thomas U.S.V.I. and the steering wheel is on the left side of car and you drive on the left side of the road uniformly over the entire island. Which takes a lot of thought to stay on the left since (for non residents) you instinctively think in terms of driving on the right side of road.

    Plumbers like all of make mistakes. I did it 30 years ago in my own kitchen. Was in a rushed replacing the kitchen in a house before we moved in. Set the single valve in place and thought I connected it correctly, but no it was reversed. Let it go for the time being saying I would get back to it. It was a couple of years before I corrected the installation, but it was my house. Finally got back to it one day. You can get use to almost anything, but that does not make correct.

    Hard to believe a real plumber would even say anything other than, "I will correct it".


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    2,446

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    "I agree with Vern.....it is not really a big deal as long as the knobs are identified."

    Unless the person using the tub is blind. It might be a big deal then.


  20. #20
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    On a wall mounted faucet with the spout directly below it I agree but on a deck mount on a large tub where the spout can be anywhere there is really no right and wrong. Some people want the hot on the left when they are outside the tub and some want it on the left when they are in the tub. It is personal preference. As far a blind person goes the ones I know check the water with their hand before getting in a tub or shower.


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    "It is personal preference."

    The codes do not allow for personal preference.

    2006 IRC
    P2722.2 Hot water. Fixture fittings and faucets that are supplied
    with both hot and cold water shall be installed and
    adjusted so that the left-hand side of thewater temperature control
    represents the flow of hot water when facing the outlet.

    Exception: Shower and tub/shower mixing valves conforming
    to ASSE 1016 or CSA B125, where the water temperature
    control corresponds to the markings on the device.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    St. George, UT
    Posts
    217

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    "I agree with Vern.....it is not really a big deal as long as the knobs are identified."

    Unless the person using the tub is blind. It might be a big deal then.
    Or soap in the eyes! The Plumber needs to change the hook-ups or the first time a person/guest turns the right knob and gets scalded, he will be liable of (at least) being incompetent as a plumber.


  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Centennial, CO
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Russel Ray View Post
    Out here in ESL country, knobs that are marked C stand for "caliente," which means "hot"!
    I work in a wholesale house, and Moen ships their lav faucets with three "letter" designations: h,c, and f. English - hot and cold, toss the f. Spanish - caliente, frio, and toss the h. French - chaud and froide.


  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    930

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Truesdale View Post
    I work in a wholesale house, and Moen ships their lav faucets with three "letter" designations: h,c, and f. English - hot and cold, toss the f. Spanish - caliente, frio, and toss the h. French - chaud and froide.
    Seems to me a better idea would be to use Red and Blue


  25. #25

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I had not thought about it, Ray, but that could be a contributing factor for those who speak Spanish.
    it also works for the cold side so it makes sense to them

    Caliente : hot
    Helada : cold


  26. #26
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    "It is personal preference."

    The codes do not allow for personal preference.

    2006 IRC
    P2722.2 Hot water. Fixture fittings and faucets that are supplied
    with both hot and cold water shall be installed and
    adjusted so that the left-hand side of thewater temperature control
    represents the flow of hot water when facing the outlet.
    Exception: Shower and tub/shower mixing valves conforming
    to ASSE 1016 or CSA B125, where the water temperature
    control corresponds to the markings on the device.
    If the spout (outlet) is on the back of the tub under the windows and the valves are on the front of the tub....if you are facing the spout from outside the tub the hot will be on the left when you face the spout and on the right when you are in the tub facing the valves. Which is correct?


  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    If the spout (outlet) is on the back of the tub under the windows and the valves are on the front of the tub....if you are facing the spout from outside the tub the hot will be on the left when you face the spout and on the right when you are in the tub facing the valves. Which is correct?
    Which is correct?

    Hot on the left WHILE IN the tub/shower.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  28. #28
    Darrel Hood's Avatar
    Darrel Hood Guest

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Jerry,
    What document says "while in the tub"?


  29. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrel Hood View Post
    Jerry,
    What document says "while in the tub"?
    So if the controls are mounted next to a wall it's INSIDE the tub, but when the control are NOT mounted next to a wall it's OUTSIDE the tub.
    Yeah, right.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Centennial, CO
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Seems to me a better idea would be to use Red and Blue
    Oh yeah, absolutely, but some have a calligraphy script for an "elegant" look. I'm a big fan of proficiency in the language of the country in which you are working.


  31. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrel Hood View Post
    Jerry,
    What document says "while in the tub"?
    See post #4.

    Let me know if I need to explain that to you.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    26

    Talking Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    As Russel pointed out, this has been a problem of different proportions for a number of years here in our glorious state. I have run in to this problem quite a bit, not only when performing new construction phase inspections for SFR, I've had situations where a whole Condo/Townhome complex was plumbed that way due to the crew's ethnic persuasion and the 'caliente' and 'helada' mix-up!


  33. #33
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Morrison View Post
    Or soap in the eyes! The Plumber needs to change the hook-ups or the first time a person/guest turns the right knob and gets scalded, he will be liable of (at least) being incompetent as a plumber.
    If someone gets scalded it is not the plumbers fault. It is the fault of the person who cut up the water heater. I leave them at 120 degrees and take a picture before I leave. Also if the spout and faucets are not on the same side of the tub there is no right and wrong since the faucets are behind you when you face the spout. Hot can't be on the left while facing the spout and on the left facing the faucets unless you put the faucets on a turntable.


  34. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    2,303

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Which is correct?

    Hot on the left WHILE IN the tub/shower.
    Correct, as long as you have your back to the controls.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
    Posts
    4,546

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Mosier View Post
    The requirement that the left side is the hot is because most people are right-handed and thus operate the right handle first.
    Discriminatory, but you're probably right. probably right. Get it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Mosier View Post
    I'm not sure why this is reversed (NOT backwards) with Mexicans but I can state that almost all the Mexicans I know are left-handed, so maybe that's why they have hot and cold faucets reversed.
    Leftys have a better chance of getting into the majors in baseball. If I was a kid in Mexico, I'd get good at throwing a left-handed breaking ball. If I was naturally right-handed, I'd learn to switch hit.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    CSA B125 specifies how certain water mixing fixtures are built. It does not cover installation. The UPC and the IRC cover installation. If you're going to argue that a Mexican plumber mistook a translation for "C" to mean Hot, then how does H translate to Cold, in Spanish? Also, if this Mexican plumber is licensed in the USA, then he was able to decode that "C" means Cold and "H" means Hot, when he attained a sufficient score to become licensed as a Plumber, in the USA. That license is evidence that he is competent to know what he is working with, and how to make it code compliant... in the USA.

    Enough of your excuses for someone who prefers to do a non professional job. I expect that even if the HI failed to bring this discrepancy to his attention, the Code Compliance Inspector would have refused his non compliant crap job.


  37. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Sugarloaf, PA
    Posts
    85

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    "Faucet is plumbed hot on right, cold on left. This is opposite of accepted practice and is indicative of an installation error. Recommend repair to conform to accepted practice."

    I'm still trying to figure out some specific situations, particularly w/garden tubs, however, I use this comment frequently for lavs, sinks, showers and tub/showers with two valves.

    My thought is that if the installer didn't care enough or know enough to get the hot on the correct side (left when using the faucet), what else is wrong?

    "the relentless pursuit of perfection"

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    2,303

    Default Re: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Peake View Post
    "Faucet is plumbed hot on right, cold on left. This is opposite of accepted practice and is indicative of an installation error. Recommend repair to conform to accepted practice."

    I'm still trying to figure out some specific situations, particularly w/garden tubs, however, I use this comment frequently for lavs, sinks, showers and tub/showers with two valves.

    My thought is that if the installer didn't care enough or know enough to get the hot on the correct side (left when using the faucet), what else is wrong?
    "Left when using the faucet" is what I always thought, but this thread has pointed out that it is "left when facing the outlet ". My old interpretation of the code made garden tubs, with the faucet and fill spout on the near side of the tub, a questionable call. Now I can say for sure which is correct. This does leave the garden tub, that has the controls on the entry side and the fill spout on the opposite side, with the hot on the left from outside the tub, as opposed to on the right when the fill spout is mounted with the controls.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •