Thread: Hot and Cold Tub faucets

Hello,

Is there a plumbing code that stipulates while standing in a tub that the hot water faucet must be on the left and the cold water faucet on the right. I am having an argument with a plumber about installation.

Jim Murphy

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Originally Posted by JIM MURPHY

Hello,

Is there a plumbing code that stipulates while standing in a tub that the hot water faucet must be on the left and the cold water faucet on the right. I am having an argument with a plumber about installation.

Jim Murphy

Yes there is

Can you give me the code please or what it states

Thanks, Jim

2006 IRC
P2722.2 Hot water. Fixture fittings and faucets that are supplied
with both hot and cold water shall be installed and
adjusted so that the left-hand side of thewater temperature control
represents the flow of hot water when facing the outlet.
Exception: Shower and tub/shower mixing valves conforming
to ASSE 1016 or CSA B125, where the water temperature
control corresponds to the markings on the device.

Thanks alot, I guess he will be taking the tub out to get the lines right!

Jim

Originally Posted by JIM MURPHY

Thanks alot, I guess he will be taking the tub out to get the lines right!

Jim

Not if the fill spout is on the other side of the tub! Or if when the water heater fill valve is closed all water flow (Hot & Cold) stops. What about when the fill valve is on the right or the left and can be used from inside as well as outside? Guess he will just have to mark the valves H & C.

I agree with Vern.....it is not really a big deal as long as the knobs are identified. If I was the plumber the OP would lose that argument.

If its the type of valve that is single handle and to turn it on you start off cold and keep turning get t to get hotter after its on, it doesn't not matter.

In lots of cases with single valve type tub and shower valves, you do not have to redo the pipes, its as simple as an adjustment on the cartridge to get the hot on the left and cold on the right.

Now if it is a two handle set up the hot needs to be on the left and cold on the right, but a tempering valve must be installed as well to prevent scalding.

Originally Posted by James Duffin

I agree with Vern.....it is not really a big deal as long as the knobs are identified. If I was the plumber the OP would lose that argument.

James,

You would lose ... two knobs does not meet the exception.

The implication in the OP post, and in your post, is two separate controls, and for that installation Ron was correct - and you would lose the argument.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

James,

You would lose ... two knobs does not meet the exception.

The implication in the OP post, and in your post, is two separate controls, and for that installation Ron was correct - and you would lose the argument.

Is this an accurate quote?:
2006 IRC
P2722.2 Hot water. Fixture fittings and faucets that are supplied
with both hot and cold water shall be installed and
adjusted so that the left-hand side of thewater temperature control
represents the flow of hot water when facing the outlet.
Exception: Shower and tub/shower mixing valves conforming
to ASSE 1016 or CSA B125, where the water temperature
control corresponds to the markings on the device.

Originally Posted by JIM MURPHY

Hello,

Is there a plumbing code that stipulates while standing in a tub that the hot water faucet must be on the left and the cold water faucet on the right. I am having an argument with a plumber about installation.

Jim Murphy

A Burning Issue With Codes, on theplumber.com
Let me guess, The Plumber is Mexican.

They always put them backwards for some reason.

(I added bold and underlining)

Originally Posted by Vern Heiler

Is this an accurate quote?:
2006 IRC
P2722.2 Hot water. Fixture fittings and faucets that are supplied
with both hot and cold water shall be installed and
adjusted so that the left-hand side of the water temperature control
represents the flow of hot water when facing the outlet.
Exception: Shower and tub/shower mixing valves conforming
to ASSE 1016 or CSA B125, where the water temperature
control corresponds to the markings on the device.

Those are SEPARATE valves, not "mixing valves". You could create the same effect as two handle faucets with two ball valves and piping run to a spout where the water from the TWO valves "mix".

Originally Posted by Bob Elliott

They always put them backwards for some reason.

When a plumber works from the 'backside', they need to remember that they are 'working backward' so to speak (like a mirror image) - most do remember that.

Originally Posted by James Duffin

I agree with Vern.....it is not really a big deal as long as the knobs are identified. If I was the plumber the OP would lose that argument.

Out here in ESL country, knobs that are marked C stand for "caliente," which means "hot"!

Originally Posted by Russel Ray

Out here in ESL country, knobs that are marked C stand for "caliente," which means "hot"!

Russel Ray? Wow, that's a name I haven't seen in a while! Where you been?

The requirement that the left side is the hot is because most people are right-handed and thus operate the right handle first. I'm not sure why this is reversed (NOT backwards) with Mexicans but I can state that almost all the Mexicans I know are left-handed, so maybe that's why they have hot and cold faucets reversed.

Originally Posted by Daniel Mosier

The requirement that the left side is the hot is because most people are right-handed and thus operate the right handle first. I'm not sure why this is reversed (NOT backwards) with Mexicans but I can state that almost all the Mexicans I know are left-handed, so maybe that's why they have hot and cold faucets reversed.

Originally Posted by Russel Ray

Out here in ESL country, knobs that are marked C stand for "caliente," which means "hot"!

I had not thought about it, Ray, but that could be a contributing factor for those who speak Spanish.

The right handed idea may or may not have been one reason though I dought it.

I would think that the rationality for the standardization is strictly based on not having the user injured by the hot water.
Think of the blind, near sighted or someone with any type of visual impairment. Marking the valve would do nothing for them (unless in brail though seldom used on faucets) . There by the necessity for a uniform standard.

None of us think about which side of the street to drive on in the U.S.A., but go to St Thomas U.S.V.I. and the steering wheel is on the left side of car and you drive on the left side of the road uniformly over the entire island. Which takes a lot of thought to stay on the left since (for non residents) you instinctively think in terms of driving on the right side of road.

Plumbers like all of make mistakes. I did it 30 years ago in my own kitchen. Was in a rushed replacing the kitchen in a house before we moved in. Set the single valve in place and thought I connected it correctly, but no it was reversed. Let it go for the time being saying I would get back to it. It was a couple of years before I corrected the installation, but it was my house. Finally got back to it one day. You can get use to almost anything, but that does not make correct.

Hard to believe a real plumber would even say anything other than, "I will correct it".

"I agree with Vern.....it is not really a big deal as long as the knobs are identified."

Unless the person using the tub is blind. It might be a big deal then.

On a wall mounted faucet with the spout directly below it I agree but on a deck mount on a large tub where the spout can be anywhere there is really no right and wrong. Some people want the hot on the left when they are outside the tub and some want it on the left when they are in the tub. It is personal preference. As far a blind person goes the ones I know check the water with their hand before getting in a tub or shower.

"It is personal preference."

The codes do not allow for personal preference.

2006 IRC
P2722.2 Hot water. Fixture fittings and faucets that are supplied
with both hot and cold water shall be installed and
adjusted so that the left-hand side of thewater temperature control
represents the flow of hot water when facing the outlet.
Exception: Shower and tub/shower mixing valves conforming
to ASSE 1016 or CSA B125, where the water temperature
control corresponds to the markings on the device.

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

"I agree with Vern.....it is not really a big deal as long as the knobs are identified."

Unless the person using the tub is blind. It might be a big deal then.

Or soap in the eyes! The Plumber needs to change the hook-ups or the first time a person/guest turns the right knob and gets scalded, he will be liable of (at least) being incompetent as a plumber.

Originally Posted by Russel Ray

Out here in ESL country, knobs that are marked C stand for "caliente," which means "hot"!

I work in a wholesale house, and Moen ships their lav faucets with three "letter" designations: h,c, and f. English - hot and cold, toss the f. Spanish - caliente, frio, and toss the h. French - chaud and froide.

Originally Posted by Steve Truesdale

I work in a wholesale house, and Moen ships their lav faucets with three "letter" designations: h,c, and f. English - hot and cold, toss the f. Spanish - caliente, frio, and toss the h. French - chaud and froide.

Seems to me a better idea would be to use Red and Blue

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I had not thought about it, Ray, but that could be a contributing factor for those who speak Spanish.

it also works for the cold side so it makes sense to them

Caliente : hot
Helada : cold

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

"It is personal preference."

The codes do not allow for personal preference.

2006 IRC
P2722.2 Hot water. Fixture fittings and faucets that are supplied
with both hot and cold water shall be installed and
adjusted so that the left-hand side of thewater temperature control
represents the flow of hot water when facing the outlet.
Exception: Shower and tub/shower mixing valves conforming
to ASSE 1016 or CSA B125, where the water temperature
control corresponds to the markings on the device.

If the spout (outlet) is on the back of the tub under the windows and the valves are on the front of the tub....if you are facing the spout from outside the tub the hot will be on the left when you face the spout and on the right when you are in the tub facing the valves. Which is correct?

Originally Posted by James Duffin

If the spout (outlet) is on the back of the tub under the windows and the valves are on the front of the tub....if you are facing the spout from outside the tub the hot will be on the left when you face the spout and on the right when you are in the tub facing the valves. Which is correct?

Which is correct?

Hot on the left WHILE IN the tub/shower.

Jerry,
What document says "while in the tub"?

Originally Posted by Darrel Hood

Jerry,
What document says "while in the tub"?

So if the controls are mounted next to a wall it's INSIDE the tub, but when the control are NOT mounted next to a wall it's OUTSIDE the tub.
Yeah, right.

Originally Posted by Bob Elliott

Seems to me a better idea would be to use Red and Blue

Oh yeah, absolutely, but some have a calligraphy script for an "elegant" look. I'm a big fan of proficiency in the language of the country in which you are working.

Originally Posted by Darrel Hood

Jerry,
What document says "while in the tub"?

See post #4.

Let me know if I need to explain that to you.

As Russel pointed out, this has been a problem of different proportions for a number of years here in our glorious state. I have run in to this problem quite a bit, not only when performing new construction phase inspections for SFR, I've had situations where a whole Condo/Townhome complex was plumbed that way due to the crew's ethnic persuasion and the 'caliente' and 'helada' mix-up!

Originally Posted by Larry Morrison

Or soap in the eyes! The Plumber needs to change the hook-ups or the first time a person/guest turns the right knob and gets scalded, he will be liable of (at least) being incompetent as a plumber.

If someone gets scalded it is not the plumbers fault. It is the fault of the person who cut up the water heater. I leave them at 120 degrees and take a picture before I leave. Also if the spout and faucets are not on the same side of the tub there is no right and wrong since the faucets are behind you when you face the spout. Hot can't be on the left while facing the spout and on the left facing the faucets unless you put the faucets on a turntable.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Which is correct?

Hot on the left WHILE IN the tub/shower.

Correct, as long as you have your back to the controls.

Originally Posted by Daniel Mosier

The requirement that the left side is the hot is because most people are right-handed and thus operate the right handle first.

Discriminatory, but you're probably right. probably right. Get it?

Originally Posted by Daniel Mosier

I'm not sure why this is reversed (NOT backwards) with Mexicans but I can state that almost all the Mexicans I know are left-handed, so maybe that's why they have hot and cold faucets reversed.

Leftys have a better chance of getting into the majors in baseball. If I was a kid in Mexico, I'd get good at throwing a left-handed breaking ball. If I was naturally right-handed, I'd learn to switch hit.

CSA B125 specifies how certain water mixing fixtures are built. It does not cover installation. The UPC and the IRC cover installation. If you're going to argue that a Mexican plumber mistook a translation for "C" to mean Hot, then how does H translate to Cold, in Spanish? Also, if this Mexican plumber is licensed in the USA, then he was able to decode that "C" means Cold and "H" means Hot, when he attained a sufficient score to become licensed as a Plumber, in the USA. That license is evidence that he is competent to know what he is working with, and how to make it code compliant... in the USA.

Enough of your excuses for someone who prefers to do a non professional job. I expect that even if the HI failed to bring this discrepancy to his attention, the Code Compliance Inspector would have refused his non compliant crap job.

"Faucet is plumbed hot on right, cold on left. This is opposite of accepted practice and is indicative of an installation error. Recommend repair to conform to accepted practice."

I'm still trying to figure out some specific situations, particularly w/garden tubs, however, I use this comment frequently for lavs, sinks, showers and tub/showers with two valves.

My thought is that if the installer didn't care enough or know enough to get the hot on the correct side (left when using the faucet), what else is wrong?

Originally Posted by Joseph Peake

"Faucet is plumbed hot on right, cold on left. This is opposite of accepted practice and is indicative of an installation error. Recommend repair to conform to accepted practice."

I'm still trying to figure out some specific situations, particularly w/garden tubs, however, I use this comment frequently for lavs, sinks, showers and tub/showers with two valves.

My thought is that if the installer didn't care enough or know enough to get the hot on the correct side (left when using the faucet), what else is wrong?

"Left when using the faucet" is what I always thought, but this thread has pointed out that it is "left when facing the outlet ". My old interpretation of the code made garden tubs, with the faucet and fill spout on the near side of the tub, a questionable call. Now I can say for sure which is correct. This does leave the garden tub, that has the controls on the entry side and the fill spout on the opposite side, with the hot on the left from outside the tub, as opposed to on the right when the fill spout is mounted with the controls.