Thread: Possible heat sink??

My client is experiencing some unusual hot water issues. He has a shower with 11 shower faucets. Two main shower heads, one rain type overhead and eight smaller heads that come from the wall to spray your body.

There are a couple of issues. Of the two mixing valves, one produces hot water no matter how you set it. Even when all the way to cold. The other issue is that when all spray heads are on, the pressure on the main shower heads goes to zero. He has already removed the pressure reducer within the main spray heads. When installing such a system, how big is the increase needed to the pipe diameter?

The other condition is weird. When the cold water handles are turned on, at all other fixtures in the home, they start out cool for 10 seconds, go to hot for about 45 seconds and then back to cold. These are not single valve units (with the exception of the kitchen unit). There are five bathrooms. All of them do the same.

It seems like we have two different issues. Is it possible that the hot and cold supply lines are installed so close together in the walls that a heat sink develops?

The house is three years old. Has a Rheem 100 ga. tank. He says it has happened since day one but the contractor has not helped. He is suing him. Any ideas?

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Originally Posted by Mike Boeger

Any ideas?

Nothing useful here other than the peg board wall doesn't do anything for me. Client has put up with this for 3 years? Wow!

Originally Posted by Mike Boeger

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He is suing him. Any ideas?

.
Yeah,

Stay out of it.
.

Originally Posted by Eric Barker

Nothing useful here other than the peg board wall doesn't do anything for me. Client has put up with this for 3 years? Wow!

Looks like a decorated pull down vinyl shade for the window wall behind/above the bench/ledge with a rectangle cut out near the top of same for privacy from the window opening to me, not a "peg board wall", note the light leakage at the left & right and to the sides and below the exposed apparently operable window opening.

Originally Posted by Mike Boeger

My client is experiencing some unusual hot water issues. He has a shower with 11 shower faucets. Two main shower heads, one rain type overhead and eight smaller heads that come from the wall to spray your body.

There are a couple of issues. Of the two mixing valves, one produces hot water no matter how you set it. Even when all the way to cold. The other issue is that when all spray heads are on, the pressure on the main shower heads goes to zero. He has already removed the pressure reducer within the main spray heads. When installing such a system, how big is the increase needed to the pipe diameter?

The other condition is weird. When the cold water handles are turned on, at all other fixtures in the home, they start out cool for 10 seconds, go to hot for about 45 seconds and then back to cold. These are not single valve units (with the exception of the kitchen unit). There are five bathrooms. All of them do the same.

It seems like we have two different issues. Is it possible that the hot and cold supply lines are installed so close together in the walls that a heat sink develops?

The house is three years old. Has a Rheem 100 ga. tank. He says it has happened since day one but the contractor has not helped. He is suing him. Any ideas?

Welcome to the forum.

First off, I doubt the presence of 11 shower "faucets". Multiple heads perhaps, several "faucets" or valve controls, but not 11 "faucets".

Nothing a competant plumber couldn't address including reversed mixing valve cartriges, failed, tampered with or removed diverter, the correction of the tampered-with flow reducers/restrictors on the shower heads, set points on antiscald shower "faucet" controls, and manifolding or increasing volume of supply risers & boosting, and correcting the reversed tempering valve connections or anti-scald provisions. Sounds like there may also be some screw up with an unmentioned near point of use WH temp boost/dump to cold line; and/or steam unit similarly installed incorrectly and/or a goof at a main tempering valve post water heater and before the bathroom groups possibly in addition to a cross over problem, at perhaps, say the kitchen sink/sprayer-diverter faucet near DW between bathroom groups and water heater.

Apparently some dis-connect with home owner and/or OP regarding "pressure" vs. "flow" also.

Should have engaged an indepenant plumbing contractor's master plumber plumber to examine, test & diagnose, after acquiring the planning documents on file with the AHJ/permits. Mods post rough/Change orders likely not supplimented with planning docs or approved, and HO diy tinkering removing flow restrictors/aerators further frustrating matters regarding shower head "pressure" complaints.

Note you provide your location as "Torrance, CA".

CA has had restrictions on maximum water flow rates in shower compartments based on size for a long, long time. Defeated or removed diverters - either or on the o/h rain fall vs. other heads; removing "flow restrictors" is a major no-no.

Didn't realize Rheem or anyone made a 100 gal RESIDENTIALstorage type WH. That is news to me.

The cool to hot, then cold, then back to hot sequence you describe is typical of some types of anti-scald type faucets when the supplying hot water is being delivered at higher than set point temperatures to the faucets - turn the water heater temp down or modulate/temper the hot water distribution to a safer delivery temperature before distribution to the faucets.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Yeah,
Stay out of it.
.

I agree.

peg board wall doesn't do anything for me.

.
I think those are penny-round ceramic tiles or similar. Very common mosaic tiles.

My guess is basket weave.

Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey

.
My guess is basket weave.

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Nope.

* light from suspect window showing through left side of photo.

here's the culprit

Mike,
Since the owner has been trying to get the original contractor to correct the problem without success for 3 years and now is suing him leaves the question of why the owner has not brought in a plumber to resolve the problem.

It may be that the contractor told the owner that the shower system may not work and took no responsibility for its installation unless something else was done and the owner did not follow through with the additional requirements.

35 + years has taught me that home owners often do not give the entire true story and that they tend to leave out or have conveniently forgotten critical facts surrounding a problem.

How hot is the water for the 45 sec before it changes ?
What type of material are the supply line made of ?
Pipes touching enough to transfer heat is unlikely.

One idea may be that the mixing valves are allowing hot water to flow into cold water pipes. Depending on supply line installation design the water is then circulating to other faucets.

Loss of water pressure at head may be a manifold issue or lack of one.

The manufacture of the shower system has specific installation requirements. The requirements varies between manufactures since the designs differ. These units take thinking to install correctly rather than installed like all other shower valves and heads.

The removal of the restrictor in head does little in pressure change just volume used. It is like turning a valve partially open, the pressure is the same just the volume has changed.

The answers that you are looking for will be found with an inform experienced plumber that can look at all of the system to evaluate what the problems are and how to correct them. Your situation needs in-person evaluation.

Finally does the builder/contractor speak and read English ?