Thread: Shower Leaks. Commercial Inspector Needed - DFW/Wichita Falls Texas

We are looking for a qualified forensic inspector/expert witness (local, if possible). I welcome all comments and inquiries with regard to the cause of these leaks, but for hire we need some specific qualifications.

Some of the problems we perceive/anticipate are:

Curbs built with metal framing instead of brick, capped with Durorock, possibly with screws through the pan on the inside and on top of the curb.
Possibly flat substrate beneath the pan, although dished out an inch or two around the drain.
Denshield possibly installed all the way to the bottom of the recess, meaning flush exposure to the mud.
No pebbles over the weep holes. In a few cases silicone, or taut pan material blocking the weep holes from underneath.

There are claims that the lack of rocks at the weepholes is perhaps the entire cause of the leaks. Based on your experience what are your preliminary thoughts on the cause and outcome of this matter? (If you are interested in seeing pictures I can send them.)

For hire, we are looking for someone with expert knowledge/certification in the following:

Tile Council of America Installation Handbook,
The American National Standards for Ceramic Tile Installation and Setting Materials (ANSI A108/118)
Extensive field experience and knowledge of shower pan installation specifications and requirements would also be necessary.

If interested, please send a message and include any additional qualifications/experience/references.
Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Ian Marroquin

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Sounds like you need to do more exploratory work. With the info provided I'm not even sure what type of pan you are talking about. Are talking about jobsite poured shower pans?
In 30 years I've never seen anyone frame out a shower stall pan with brick. Been on almost every type of job around.
Flat substrate is pretty common. The slope gets worked into the pour. I also have no idea what you are talking about for weep holes if this is actually about shower pans. If this is an exterior install then please clarify.
Yes the Densshield should be up from the pan. However, any rot at the DS should be irrelevant since the pan flashing should go above the level of the DS. No screws shouldn't go through the pan.
You don't give enough specifics about the shower pan set-up. What you are saying doesn't make sense entirely. How deep is this pan, is has to be collecting a lot of water to leak from much else besides the drain or pan substructure.
If this is a poured shower pan or relatively standard shower stall, the leak is probably from: the pan to drain fitting connection, extreme cracking of the pan mud pour from joist deflection and/or no impervious pan liner.
If this is a shower stall with steam or lots of body jets, then that changes everything. The install should have a full Schluter wrap and preferably a prefab pan.

Markus,

It sounds like he is referring to the weep holes in the shower drain, which are covered with pea gravel, or what I typically see, crushed tile shards from the job site, before the final pan is completed.

Dom.

@Marcus Keller

The pan is pvc pan liner. I believe it is Oatley, but could be an equivalent. When speaking of brick I was referring only to the construction of the curb. In my experience I have only seen curbs built out of brick and pressure treated lumber. In any case, the curb itself is constructed of metal framing.

The shower is 3x3 built according to TCNA B420. On the walls you have ceramic tile thin-set to coated glass-mat water-resistant gyp backer board (DensShield), which should stop just above the mud on flexible sealant aka caulk. Flat substrate is common, yes, but should be floated so that the pan itself slopes 1/4" per ft. to the weep holes in the drain.

I included the bit about the weep holes because of comments from the owner:

"...there was no gravel around the weep holes, which were actually clogged with mortar. When this happens, the water that leaches through the tile floor and grout, will hydraulically, work its way up the face of the pan liner and will get the backer board wet. The wicking action will, over a period of time cause the insulation to become saturated, the exterior sheet rock will become degraded, etc."

They certainly said more regarding other issues. Anyone feel free to ask if you would like me to include it.

Thanks for asking, let me know if I can clarify further

Yeah, that's pretty much how those look over time, seen plenty of them during rehab jobs. The metal framing should be Ok if proper sealed and maintained. The metal curb at the entry is just plain stupid. You are right that should have been treated wood.
I can't say that I agree on the wicking idea though from the bottom up. That water damage is very high up just for wicking. Looks like over a foot. Possible buy I'm skeptical. From the pics I can't tell anything about the drain.
Unless the drain is clogged or the body sponge is laying on top of the drain there shouldn't be more than a 1/4 or so of water in the shower during normal use. The back side pic showing the screws looks odd but I'm not sure about it. Obviously you need at least some of those screws otherwise the bottom 2 feet of DS would be loose.
A few thoughts ...
- What is the mortar bed made of? Mortar, thinset, etc. I've seen guys mix up regular mortar mix before
- I'm thinking poor grout and caulk maintenance
- Also with the height of the water damage, I'm thinking water infiltration from the faucet and shower head plates more than up wick.
Hope that helps.

Ian,
How old is this pan ?