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  1. #1
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    Default Pressure regulator inside a house

    Why would this pressure regulator be installed inside of the home. It looked like this may have been an attic area that was converted into interior storage space, but am I right that it should not be there?

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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Bombardiere View Post
    Why would this pressure regulator be installed inside of the home. It looked like this may have been an attic area that was converted into interior storage space, but am I right that it should not be there?
    .
    Frank,

    You are correct it should not be inside.
    .

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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Frank,

    You are correct it should not be inside.
    .
    Why not?

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    .
    Why not?
    .
    It's a Fire and Safety Hazard.

    The Relief Valve isn't even Allowed Closer than 3 Feet Horizontally or 6 feet below an operable window.

    Why would you think it would be Allowed Inside The Dwelling Space?
    .

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    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 02-02-2012 at 07:13 PM. Reason: added pdf
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    He was likely being sarcastic. I could not believe it was in there so I wanted to make sure it was not something I was missing I did not know if there could be a regulator that does not relieve gas pressure occasionally or something like that. I know if it can release gas, it should not be in there.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    National fuel gas code 5.8.1 Venting
    VENTING CODE - NFPA 54/ANSI Z223.1 NATIONAL FUEL GAS CODE
    5.8.5 Venting
    5.8.5.1 Line Gas Pressure Regulators

    Line gas pressure regulators shall comply with the following:



    1. An independent vent to the exterior of the building, sized in accordance with the regulator manufacturer's instructions, shall be provided where the location of the regulator is such that a ruptured diaphragm will cause a hazard.
    A. Where there is more than one regulator at a location, each regulator shall have a separate vent to the outdoors, or if approved by the authority having jurisdiction, the vent lines shall be permitted to be manifolded in accordance with accepted engineering practices to minimize back pressure in the event of diaphragm failure. (See 5.9.7 for information on properly locating the vent.)


    B. Materials for vent piping shall be in accordance with section 5.6.
    Exception: A regulator and vent limiting means combination listed as complying with ANSI Z21.80 / CSA 6.22, Line Pressure Regulators, shall be permitted to be used without a vent to the outdoors.
    2. The vent shall be designed to prevent the entry of water, insects, or other foreign materials that could cause blockage.
    3. At location where regulators might be submerged during floods, a special antiflood-type breather vent fitting shall be installed, or the vent line shall be extended above the height of the expected flood waters.
    4. A regulator shall not be vented to the appliance flue or exhaust system.


    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Jim, thanks for the info. I believe it had a vent limiter and was designed in a way that does not release enough gas to be a hazard. Below was copied from the manual for these regulators.


    Vent Limiter Maximum Allowable Venting Rate
    A vent limiting orifice or device when used with Maxitrol regulators
    does not release or relieve gas into the environment during
    normal operation.
    NOTE: Vent limiters are designed for use indoors and
    in spaces where limiting the amount of gas escapement
    due to diaphragm failure is critical. Vent limiters
    should not be used outdoors if they are exposed
    to the environment. 13A15 Vent Protector is available
    for outdoor use when vent protection is required.

    I thought I was asking a dumb question, but turns out, I learned something. I had not seen one of these inside before and thought surely I am missing something here because it appeared to be professionally installed. Glad I asked.

    Last edited by Frank Bombardiere; 02-02-2012 at 08:49 PM. Reason: Add more info
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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Bombardiere View Post
    He was likely being sarcastic. I could not believe it was in there so I wanted to make sure it was not something I was missing I did not know if there could be a regulator that does not relieve gas pressure occasionally or something like that. I know if it can release gas, it should not be in there.
    Wasn't being sarcastic, I was in the middle of writing report that makes you earn every penny and didn't have time to look up the code details. Old 1991 gas code is 402.13.1 and 402.13.2. MP regulators are inside homes at gas logs, water heaters, furnaces etc. Just has to be listed as being vent limiting.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Wasn't being sarcastic, I was in the middle of writing report that makes you earn every penny and didn't have time to look up the code details. Old 1991 gas code is 402.13.1 and 402.13.2. MP regulators are inside homes at gas logs, water heaters, furnaces etc. Just has to be listed as being vent limiting.
    .
    And the one Posted is Vent Limited ?
    .

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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    And the one Posted is Vent Limited ?
    .
    Even if it was, since the vent limiter has been spray painted it should be called out.


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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    And the one Posted is Vent Limited ?
    .
    Venting Code - Maxitrol Company

    I can't tell from the picture but I suspect it is. Side note: the valve has to be mounted on its back, not vertical, and the paint is also an issue, but that was not the question.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Both the regulator stem and the vent port (either plugged - improper or clogged vent limiter containing) are painted and as Dom pointed out, are wrong and must now be replaced - if vent limiter is present it is likewise wrong as the regulator must be installed horizontal and upright and a vent limiter must be atop.

    Further, it is likely not right also because prior to the begining of the last decade just about anything went, i.e. using APPLIANCE regulators as line-regulators has not been allowed since the implementation of the Z21.80 standard (not Z21.18 - for an appliance regulator).

    The outlet side is the vent opening or vent limiting containing side of the regulator.

    Summary, Dom is spot on on both the regulator and the vent limiter (if present) requiring to be not only replaced due to the fouling of paint and loss of any certification, but the entire set up needs to be reworked, either installing vent piping or correcting the orientation, and installing a LINE regulator, not an appliance regulator, properly selected for the range of pressures working, pilot, and non-use, and if using an automatic vent limiter instead of venting, installed in the ONLY orientation which is allowed to do so (horizontal, upright), and one which is specifically certified for the particular regulator.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    It's a Fire and Safety Hazard.

    The Relief Valve isn't even Allowed Closer than 3 Feet Horizontally or 6 feet below an operable window.

    Why would you think it would be Allowed Inside The Dwelling Space?
    .
    They are allowed inside when either vent piped appropriately or equipped with a vent limiter, certified for the regulator and application of same and the regulator is installed in the correct orientation when so equipped.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    H.G. How can you tell if it is LINE or APPLIANCE by the picture? Not being funny, is there something you can tell by?

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Bombardiere View Post
    Why would this pressure regulator be installed inside of the home. It looked like this may have been an attic area that was converted into interior storage space, but am I right that it should not be there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Frank,

    You are correct it should not be inside.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Venting Code - Maxitrol Company

    I can't tell from the picture but I suspect it is. Side note: the valve has to be mounted on its back, not vertical, and the paint is also an issue, but that was not the question.
    .
    Really?
    .


    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    H.G. How can you tell if it is LINE or APPLIANCE by the picture? Not being funny, is there something you can tell by?
    Vern,

    Sorry to be so tardy in responding to your directed question, I never saw it at the time...and my attention was brought to it by another recently.

    I didn't identify the regulator from the picture, I identified the regulator spec from the OPs (Frank B.) third post (post #7) where he quoted the manufacturer's information for the pictured regulator as he identified and indicated as being present. The information he quoted provided enough detail to identify the regulator manufacturer, series & model.

    Specifically the snippet referenced the currently available vent protector to be used for this (as determined by the OP) regulator when the particular Maxitrol regulator is installed outdoors (Maxitrol 13A15 Vent Protector). Since the referenced model vent protector is specific to the Maxitrol 325-3 and 325-3(B) (Appliance regulators) that identifies the regulator.

    Maxitrol Series 325 Appliance regulators according to the manufacturer's web site are not certified or approved to meet standard ANSI Z21.80, According to the manufacturer's web site they meet CSA; ANSI Z21.18 and not approved as/or meeting ANSI Z21.80.

    So using the same (new) model to replace same (Maxitrol 325-3) with a Maxitrol 12A09 vent limiter indoors for the pictured application (as a line regulator) wouldn't meet the standard (NFGC - NFPA 54, ANSI Z223.1) exception Jim Luttrall quoted (which requires meeting Z21.80).

    I'm guessing Frank B. answered his own ? as to the "why present" when he read the document he snipped and quoted from - reduces 2 PSI piping system supplied to 5-11" w.c.



    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 07-15-2012 at 11:48 PM. Reason: Inserted picture.

  17. #17
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    Cool Re: Pressure regulator inside a house

    Maxitrol left some dated documents online causing some confusion here. The 325 series IS listed to ANSI Z21.80 as line pressure regulators. They originally were listed to Z21.18 as appliance regulators but with the advent of Z21.80, regulators listed for appliances are no longer considered acceptable as line pressure regulators. Basically, the 325 series has been upgraded on paper but its essentially the same regulator but with some options such as outdoor rate blue coating, vent limiters and vent protectors for outdoor applications.

    Vent limiters can be used only in well ventilated spaces--not concealed spaces. The vent limiter works by a metallic ball resting on the orifice. It regulates discharge by gravity hence the requirement for a horizontal orientation required when using the vent limiter. If you cannot orient horizontally, then you must pipe the vent out.


    The regulator in the OP is not an appliance regulator because it is connected to a manifold and not within the cabinet of an appliance. You will see little poppet valve-type appliance regulators under/ behind most gas appliances.

    The IRC requires there be a sediment trap immediately upstream of the MP regulator between the shutoff and reg. This cannot be done in the configuration shown by the OP so it is wrong. In addition, there must be another capped or plugged tee downstream within 10 pipe diameters for pressure testing. Most AHJs will allow the newer type gas shutoffs with a built in pressure tap for 1/8" NPT connection for this purpose.

    As noted, painting the regulator voids the warranty and listing.

    http://66.18.210.80/manuals/Maxitrol...EN_07.2007.pdf

    HTH

    Last edited by Bob Harper; 07-18-2012 at 09:39 AM.
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