Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: What is this ?

  1. #1
    Norm Peery's Avatar
    Norm Peery Guest

    Default What is this ?

    I have never seen this before. No conventional trap present. Can anyone ID this?

    Norm

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Inspection Referral SOC

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: What is this ?

    Bottle trap

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  3. #3
    Norm Peery's Avatar
    Norm Peery Guest

    Default Re: What is this ?

    Thanks, Rick


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Serving SC & NC
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: What is this ?

    P3201.5 Prohibited trap designs. The following types of
    traps are prohibited:
    1. Bell traps.
    2. Separate fixture traps with interior partitions, except
    those lavatory traps made of plastic, stainless steel or
    other corrosion-resistant material.
    3. “S” traps.
    4. Drum traps.
    5. Trap designs with moving parts.
    A trap is a simple U-shaped piping arrangement that
    offers minimal resistance to flow. Certain traps or arrangements
    are prohibited.

    Code commentary: ...
    Item 2 refers to separate fixture traps with interior
    partitions, except those lavatory traps made of plastic,
    stainless steel or other corrosion-resistant material.
    Such lavatory traps are sometimes referred to as bottle
    traps
    . This item refers to independent traps that are
    not integral with the fixture. For example, water closet
    traps are a form of partition trap, but because they are
    part of the fixture they are not prohibited. Partition
    traps are single-wall traps that rely on a single partition
    to separate the house side of the trap from the sewer
    side of the trap. Although they may be made of corrosion-
    resistant material, they are still subject to corrosion
    and can fail structurally. Because such failure
    does not result in leakage, there will be no indication of
    the lost trap seal.

    Joe Funderburk, CBO, CMI
    Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
    Serving SC & NC

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Serving SC & NC
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: What is this ?

    "P3201.1 Design of traps. Traps shall be of standard design,
    shall have smooth uniform internal waterways, shall be
    self-cleaning
    and shall not have interior partitions except
    where integral with the fixture. Traps shall be constructed of
    lead, cast iron, cast or drawn brass or approved plastic
    . Tubular
    brass traps shall be not less than No. 20 gage (0.8 mm) thickness.
    Solid connections, slip joints and couplings are permitted
    to be used on the trap inlet, trap outlet, or within the trap seal.
    Slip joints shall be accessible."

    A bottle trap is not self-cleaning and is prohibited by the IRC and IPC in my opinion.

    Joe Funderburk, CBO, CMI
    Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
    Serving SC & NC

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: What is this ?

    After seeing several in new homes and remodels.
    (Almost all pedestal sinks use a bottle trap, just about the only thing that will allow the close fit to the wall.)
    Anyhow, I asked the AHJ, and was told they (AHJ) do not disallow the use of bottle traps.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: What is this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Funderburk View Post

    A bottle trap is not self-cleaning and is prohibited by the IRC and IPC in my opinion.
    You do know what a lavatory is, right? (pictured).

    The partition trap is allowed, it is servicable as well.

    The outside cover finish appearance is no indication of what the material constituting the trap itself actually is INSIDE (most often plastic at the big box stores).

    You first quoted what actually ALLOWS this within the ordered list as an exception to what is prohibited. Granted its a specific permissive listed as an exception ("except those") to a generalized prohibition...but the model code language you first quoted permits a separate-from-the-fixture (not integral to the fixture) partition trap for a lavatory.

    You then quoted the commentary that further explained its (unammended) permissive use.

    P3201.5 Prohibited trap designs. The following types of
    traps are prohibited:

    2. Separate fixture traps with interior partitions, except
    those lavatory traps
    made of plastic, stainless steel or other corrosion-resistant material.







  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Serving SC & NC
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: What is this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    The partition trap is allowed, it is servicable as well.
    That's the problem as I see it. Service is not supposed to be required, as the code says it should be "self cleaning".

    P.S. You misspelled serviceable.

    Joe Funderburk, CBO, CMI
    Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
    Serving SC & NC

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: What is this ?

    (I added bold and italic to the quote below)
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Funderburk View Post
    P3201.5 Prohibited trap designs. The following types of
    traps are prohibited:
    1. Bell traps.
    2. Separate fixture traps with interior partitions, except
    those lavatory traps made of plastic, stainless steel or
    other corrosion-resistant material.
    3. S traps.
    4. Drum traps.
    5. Trap designs with moving parts.
    A trap is a simple U-shaped piping arrangement that
    offers minimal resistance to flow. Certain traps or arrangements
    are prohibited.

    Code commentary: ...
    Item 2 refers to separate fixture traps with interior
    partitions, except those lavatory traps made of plastic,
    stainless steel or other corrosion-resistant material.
    Such lavatory traps are sometimes referred to as bottle
    traps
    . This item refers to independent traps that are
    not integral with the fixture. For example, water closet
    traps are a form of partition trap, but because they are
    part of the fixture they are not prohibited. Partition
    traps are single-wall traps that rely on a single partition
    to separate the house side of the trap from the sewer
    side of the trap. Although they may be made of corrosion-
    resistant material, they are still subject to corrosion
    and can fail structurally. Because such failure
    does not result in leakage, there will be no indication of
    the lost trap seal
    .
    Note that the code itself says not allowed ... except ... then the commentary explains that even those excepted by the code should not be allowed as they can fail with no visible signs of that failure as the failure is fully internal to the trap.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •