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  1. #1
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    Default State water heater age

    I can't find anything with this s/n ? Any help appreciated. Home built in 1999.131105ste 089.jpg

    Inspection Referral SOC
    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    I can't find anything with this s/n ? Any help appreciated. Home built in 1999.131105ste 089.jpg
    40th week of 2000.

    Paul Kondzich
    Ft. Myers, FL.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Thanks Paul, Odd to have a water heater replaced in less than two years?

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Could be the house really wasn't built in 1999?
    Maybe the house had a smaller water heater and the owner wanted an upgrade?
    Maybe something happened to the original?

    Why does it matter?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    I can't find anything with this s/n ? Any help appreciated. Home built in 1999.131105ste 089.jpg
    WAG, but Jan 1998 would be a good guess! Look at what is above the serial number.... State puts the manufacture date as the month and year......

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    WAG, but Jan 1998 would be a good guess! Look at what is above the serial number.... State puts the manufacture date as the month and year......
    Scott, that doesn't look like the manufacture date.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    I would also go with the 40th week of 2000. Try this web site: WATER HEATER AGE INFO | Building Intelligence Center

    Jeff Euriech
    Arizona Prime Property Inspection LLC


  8. #8
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by neal lewis View Post
    Scott, that doesn't look like the manufacture date.
    State was bought by A.O.Smith in 2001, after this all,of their labels will have a coded date code. Prior to that every unit I have seen had the date printed on the data plate.

    This is their Phone number 1.800.365.8170. Give them a call and they will be able to tell you the exact date.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    That is where I went first. None of the styles match what I have. Might call State if I get some time. Thanks all.

    Just called State. First letter 'B' is the month, then year. Feb 2000.

    Last edited by Vern Heiler; 11-06-2013 at 11:50 AM.
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Hey Vern. I blew the picture up bigger. ("View Image" then ctrl +)

    1) That is an '8' not a 'B'.

    2) House built in '99 and they waited a year for the water heater?

    3)
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    State was bought by A.O.Smith in 2001, after this all,of their labels will have a coded date code. Prior to that every unit I have seen had the date printed on the data plate.
    That number code didn't exist for State in 2000, so how could it be number coded for 2000?

    4) Scott is never wrong. 1998 is more correct than 2000, not that it matters much now.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

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    Default Re: State water heater age

    So he calls State and they say 2000, however people still want to say something else. Weird.

    Paul Kondzich
    Ft. Myers, FL.

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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Hey Vern. I blew the picture up bigger. ("View Image" then ctrl +)

    1) That is an '8' not a 'B'.

    2) House built in '99 and they waited a year for the water heater?

    3) That number code didn't exist for State in 2000, so how could it be number coded for 2000?

    4) Scott is never wrong. 1998 is more correct than 2000, not that it matters much now.
    Hey John, when I blow it up it has a straight line on the left and squiggly line on the right

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  14. #14

    Default Re: State water heater age

    Even though the records show the house was built in 1999, it was probably completed in 2000. That's when the water heater was installed. The water heater was manufactured in the 40th week of 2000.


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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff C. View Post
    Even though the records show the house was built in 1999, it was probably completed in 2000. That's when the water heater was installed. The water heater was manufactured in the 40th week of 2000.
    Does February have 40 weeks?

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Kondzich View Post
    So he calls State and they say 2000, however people still want to say something else. Weird.
    No, he called the new owners, who took over in 2001. Read it again.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Just called State. First letter 'B' is the month, then year. Feb 2000.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Hey Vern. I blew the picture up bigger. ("View Image" then ctrl +)

    1) That is an '8' not a 'B'.

    2) House built in '99 and they waited a year for the water heater?
    1) That is a "B", not an "8" - look at the "B" in the word "NUMBER" and the "8" in the "1998" above, also in the "38,000" Btu input rating.

    2) Stated post dated their water heaters by 3 months to allow for shipping, warehousing, and installation time. The water heater is dated February, 2000 for warranty purposes, the water heater was manufactured 3 months prior, or November, 1999.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    1) That is a "B", not an "8" - look at the "B" in the word "NUMBER" and the "8" in the "1998" above, also in the "38,000" Btu input rating.2) Stated post dated their water heaters by 3 months to allow for shipping, warehousing, and installation time. The water heater is dated February, 2000 for warranty purposes, the water heater was manufactured 3 months prior, or November, 1999.
    no that's not quite true, but its almost half-right. No certification was post dated. That's a NTL certification to a STANDARD and that would NEVER be "post-dated" it is coded to the TIME of actual manufacture and certifiction (afixed and completed data tag/plate). The semi-proprietary (mfg & NTL records)in this case (and was manytimes the case with varying former mfg'ing entities of the considered and prior eras) had to do with the production code period of the FISCAL year (YE) which ended at a time prior to the calendar year and a FISCAL YEAR beginning prior to January 1 of the calendar year and the FYE (fiscal year end) prior to December 31. The production date code month of the FISCAL year which did NOT follow the Calendar year. (Until it was acquired by another corporate entity which revised the coding system to the calendar year!).A second production month of a fiscal year which ended in the YR code indicated prior to December 31. Old SEC finlings and (fiscal year) annual reporting. Most archived documents are image scanned (c) Library of congress not via OCR, but still accessible via WWW. A production year and fiscal year that begins Oct. 1 and ends September 30; e.g. (for example) our federal government FY 2014 began Oct. 1, 2013 (with the Shut-down). IIRC prior to acquisition, State's FYE (fiscal-year-end -and therefore last production month in same ended) sept. Second production month of the corporate entity fiscal year would have been Nov."post-dating" and/or back-dating production certification data would have and remains a violation of federal laws (interstate commerce). Dating production coding to coincide with fiscal year accounting is and was not. Data plate certification was just that, certification.Think of it this way...2014 model cars in showrooms in 2013, the VIN may still be decoded with mfg data to actual production completion dates long prior to the model year and oftentimes prior to FY end of the mfg.

    Not every corporate entity begins (poof!) on January 1st. Not every entity is required to close their books on December 31st (unlike individuals, sole proprietorships, or 'most' S-corps.). Some corporations actually have FYE that don't co-incide with callendar year quarters or even calendar year month ends! {gasp!}

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 11-08-2013 at 01:54 AM.

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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    WAG, but Jan 1998 would be a good guess! Look at what is above the serial number.... State puts the manufacture date as the month and year......
    Nope. That ".1.1998" is a continuation of the ANSI Standard number edition modifier filled in as CERTIFIED via the AGA certification program. IIRC the next edition/ammendment standard was issued 2000.

    e.g., "ANS(I) Z21.10.1.1998" Which is:

    "Gas Water Heaters - Volume I, Storage Water Heaters With Input Ratings of 75,000 Btu Per Hour or Less"


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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Nope. That ".1.1998" is a continuation of the ANSI Standard number edition modifier filled in as CERTIFIED via the AGA certification program. IIRC the next edition/ammendment standard was issued 2000.

    e.g., "ANS(I) Z21.10.1.1998" Which is:
    OK, that makes sense. And the B makes sense,too, on a bigger monitor. Scott, your WAG was wrong, bad boy.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    no that's not quite true, but its almost half-right. No certification was post dated.
    Watson,

    It it good to see that things never changed ... you are still as arrogant and all about you as you were - oh, yeah, and you still don't read what posts are about before trying to go in unrelated detail about why something is not as you THINK it was being stated.

    How about you just grunt and groan to yourself and not bother the rest of us with your trivial and non-applicable meanderings? Do that and this will be fine here.

    Or maybe you could actually read what was written and respond to that ... nah ... that would lower your self esteem and leave you with nothing to pound your chest about - so the choice above is probably the better choice ... "just grunt and groan to yourself and not bother the rest of us with your trivial and non-applicable meanderings" - yeah, that should take care of it.

    (sigh)

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    For Watson ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    1) That is a "B", not an "8" - look at the "B" in the word "NUMBER" and the "8" in the "1998" above, also in the "38,000" Btu input rating.

    2) Stated post dated their water heaters by 3 months to allow for shipping, warehousing, and installation time. The water heater is dated February, 2000 for warranty purposes, the water heater was manufactured 3 months prior, or November, 1999.

    ... maybe he will actually read the post and understand what is being discussed.

    That water heater was manufactured in November, 1999 and dated with the date of manufacture of 3 months later (post dated by 3 months) with the date of February, 2000.

    Watson, either read what is written or don't respond - it is really embarrassing to have to start back up all over again and explain your non-applicable nonsense posts ... (sigh)

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    For Watson ...




    ... maybe he will actually read the post and understand what is being discussed.

    That water heater was manufactured in November, 1999 and dated with the date of manufacture of 3 months later (post dated by 3 months) with the date of February, 2000.

    Watson, either read what is written or don't respond - it is really embarrassing to have to start back up all over again and explain your non-applicable nonsense posts ... (sigh)
    Hi Jerry, good to see you back posting, and keeping Watson in line

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    For Watson ...




    ... maybe he will actually read the post and understand what is being discussed.

    That water heater was manufactured in November, 1999 and dated with the date of manufacture of 3 months later (post dated by 3 months) with the date of February, 2000.

    Watson, either read what is written or don't respond - it is really embarrassing to have to start back up all over again and explain your non-applicable nonsense posts ... (sigh)


    Everything you contributed to this discussion was read by me "PECK" and, of course, was comprehended.

    The same cannot be said for you.

    It is YOU who haven't understood. It is YOU who STILL doesn't "GET" that what you have said is WRONG, WHY IT is WRONG, and that your "explanation" and allegation of "POST-DATING" is a claim of criminal activity! You have contrived a back-story which perhaps helps your limited capacity to devine a correct manufacture certification date but you are perpetrating and PUBLISHING (continuously) a falsehood/backstory which is tortuous, inujurious.

    STATE INDUSTRIES DID NOT POST-DATE ANYTHING. AGA (NTL) CERTIFICATIONS WERE NEVER POST DATED.

    THE DATE CODE SYSTEM EMPLOYED BY STATE PRIOR TO ACQUISITION BY A.O. SMITH AND FOR THE BRIEF PART-YEAR FOLLOWING CONTINUED TO THE FISCAL YEAR PRODUCTION CODING SYSTEM.

    I realize now why someone MAY have resorted to telling you what they did, since you still cannot GRASP the CONCEPT of a production week/production month/production year/accounting year/fiscal year which does not coincide with the calendar year!!

    FOR EXAMPLE: A FISCAL YEAR(PRODUCTION YEAR ALSO) WHICH BEGINS OCTOBER 1, 1999 FIRST PRODUCTION MONTH IS OCTOBER, First production week would be in october, last production week/month would be before October 2000 - get it now?



    ACQUISITION, TRANSITION FOR FINAL REPORTING FOR POST SETTLEMENT OPERATIONS RESULTS IN A PARTIAL YEAR (LESS THAN 12-MONTHS) REPORTING/PRODUCTION PERIOD AND CLOSE-OUT, NEW OWNERSHIP ENTITY TRANSITION REPORTING UNDER the ownership of A.O. SMITH after acquisition BEGAN FIRST "STATE" BRANDED STORAGE-TYPE RESIDENTIAL WATER HEATERS PRODUCED WITH "CALENDAR YEAR' PRODUCTION CODING COINSIDING WITH POST A.O. SMITH'S ACQUISITION FIRST PRODUCTION & FISCAL YEAR SYSTEM WHERE A=jANUARY, followed by a two digit CALENDAR YEAR "designation".

    We went through this before with GE on weekly FISCAL YEAR production/fiscal WEEK coding from CT plant, The "Orig" AmSt heating & cooling Div, etc.

    NO ONE POST-DATED or back-dated CERTIFICATIONS to ANS(I) Z21.10, There was no requirement, however, to have a non-proprietary, mfg dating system nor a requirement to use a calendar year dating system - the relationship to the NTL or third party certification (esp. pressure) was and is proprietary.

    NO-ONE post-dates (or back-dates) DATE OF MFG. Codings refering to a production day, a production week or production month of a production year (which does not have to coincide with the calendar year) have been and were allowed.

    However, the names and/or abbreviations for the calendar months must pertain to production/certification of that actual month of a calendar year/production year, and when a four-digit year (numeric) is incorporated - it must have been actually completed/certified within that calendar year of designation.

    STATE INDUSTRIES did not engage in "post-dating" nor of "back-dating" certifications. Your bull-headed and continued false statements in that regard are undefendable, slanderous, etc.

    Fiscal year production coding and partial final year to YE reporting until first production month following completion of A.O. Smith's acquisition.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 11-09-2013 at 08:53 AM.

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    Default Re: State water heater age

    A water heater date question turns into slander. Jesus F'n Christ. I took a break from IN for awhile. Now I remember why. Things are much more normal at TIJ...


  26. #26

    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Does February have 40 weeks?
    Are you that stupid? Home Inspection 101.


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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Everything you contributed to this discussion was read by me "PECK" and, of course, was comprehended.
    "and, of course, was comprehended."

    Watson,

    Are you REALLY admitting that you cannot comprehend what is written ... or is that another error in your postings?

    That last post of your truly demonstrates that YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND what you think you do ... oh, wait, YOU think you comprehend it, therefore you do comprehend it - in your own Watson's World mind.

    However, based on what YOU POSTED ... you have NO IDEA of what is being said by others or even what you are saying. Like I said - it is embarrassing to have to explain this to you all over again, after going through it so many times before ... well, at least all you have done is pick up some larger crayons, at least you do not seem to have found the colored crayons you had before ... (sigh) ... you really need to stop posting until you actually do comprehend what is going on.

    If you need help in clarifying what is being discussed, just ask - I will patiently explain it to you ... word ... by ... word ... if ... need ... be.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "and, of course, was comprehended."

    Watson,

    Are you REALLY admitting that you cannot comprehend what is written ... or is that another error in your postings?

    That last post of your truly demonstrates that YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND what you think you do ... oh, wait, YOU think you comprehend it, therefore you do comprehend it - in your own Watson's World mind.

    However, based on what YOU POSTED ... you have NO IDEA of what is being said by others or even what you are saying. Like I said - it is embarrassing to have to explain this to you all over again, after going through it so many times before ... well, at least all you have done is pick up some larger crayons, at least you do not seem to have found the colored crayons you had before ... (sigh) ... you really need to stop posting until you actually do comprehend what is going on.

    If you need help in clarifying what is being discussed, just ask - I will patiently explain it to you ... word ... by ... word ... if ... need ... be.
    {sigh}

    Peck,

    The 40th production week in a calendar year accounting & reporting entity would be in October.

    The 40th production week for an entity with a fiscal year end of September 30th would be the first week in July.

    State Industries while a privately held entity (pre A.O. Smith Acquisition 2002) had a FISCAL YEAR production and accounting year which DID NOT coincide with the CALENDAR YEAR end!

    As I recall there was a single partial quarter final production/accounting/return period post FYE 2001 prior to A.O.Smith completed acquisition January 2002 which codes based on calendar year system.

    Their (State Ind. prior to A.O. Smith acquisition) Fiscal year began before January first! (like more thn 30% of publically traded corporations, our own federal government, many states & municipalities, scores more thousands upon thousands of held subsidaries, and thousands upon thousands of other privately held entities!

    Nothing, especially not a certification/data plate, was post-dated!

    Holy Cow!! Are you really this ignorant?

    Stop! Enough already! Neither State Ind. nor the 3rd party NTL reviewing/testing engineers post-dated anything, esp. not certification data plates of anything for interstate commerce nor export!

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 11-10-2013 at 04:40 PM.

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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Holy Cow!! Are you really this ignorant?
    Watson,

    My thinking exactly - ARE YOU REALLY AS IGNORANT AS YOUR POSTS ARE SHOWING?

    Think, Watson, THINK ...

    This discussion IS ABOUT THE AGE of the water heater, not standards dates it is tested and listed to, and State POST-DATED the *MANUFACTURING DATE* on their water heaters by 3 months to allow for the time the water heaters would likely be in stock in a warehouse before being installed. This was done so that the warranty period, which was based on the date of manufacture on the label (unless someone had a receipt showing the date of purchase being different - later - than the date on the label), would be from the likely date of installation, not the date of manufacture.

    I know ... BECAUSE I CALLED STATE AND ASKED THEM WHY THE DATE ON THE WATER I WAS LOOKING AT WAS *BEFORE* THE DATE IT WAS INSTALLED ... and that was about the time frame the house in question was built.

    Watson, you really do make yourself look like an idiot when you go off on tangents like you do and insist that you know what you are talking about when you really have no idea what on earth is going on ... (sigh) ...

    Edit: added this to the end of the first paragraph after the two one-liner paragraphs:
    - ", would be from the likely date of installation, not the date of manufacture". ... to complete the sentence.
    - Also corrected a typo in "MANUFACTURING DATE"

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 11-10-2013 at 08:51 PM.
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff C. View Post
    Are you that stupid? Home Inspection 101.
    I might ask the same of you! A= January, B= February, etc. There is no way you can get 40 weeks into the first two months of the year!

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    I might ask the same of you! A= January, B= February, etc. There is no way you can get 40 weeks into the first two months of the year!
    Argh!Vern,AO Smith dating system not until they completed purchase first month January 2002 production.AO Smith didn't even announce their interest to purchse State until after FY close which for State was end of September 2001.This water heater was produced by an independent privately held State Industries. It was certified at one of four plants.For pre-AO smith acquisition all months and weeks and year data was based on the fiscal year not the calendar year.State didn't post-date anything. Pre-AO Smith ownership the first production month was october. A water heater mfg'd in october 1999 would be mnufactured in the first production month of fiscal yeaar 2000.To make things interesting, there was an entirely different system for coding State Ind. WHs in the 80s.


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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    State didn't post-date anything.
    So you are saying that the people at State lied?

    Let's review our choices here:
    a) Believe Watson
    b) Believe the people at State
    .... that really is a tough one there ... just kidding, that is an easy one: b) gets it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    So you are saying that the people at State lied?

    Let's review our choices here:
    a) Believe Watson
    b) Believe the people at State
    .... that really is a tough one there ... just kidding, that is an easy one: b) gets it.
    No those are not the choices.



    Your claims that some unknown somebody supposedly said "..XYZ" is absolute fiction.


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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Argh!Vern,AO Smith dating system not until they completed purchase first month January 2002 production.AO Smith didn't even announce their interest to purchse State until after FY close which for State was end of September 2001.This water heater was produced by an independent privately held State Industries. It was certified at one of four plants.For pre-AO smith acquisition all months and weeks and year data was based on the fiscal year not the calendar year.State didn't post-date anything. Pre-AO Smith ownership the first production month was october. A water heater mfg'd in october 1999 would be mnufactured in the first production month of fiscal yeaar 2000.To make things interesting, there was an entirely different system for coding State Ind. WHs in the 80s.
    First character = Month, Second and third digit = Year, Forth digit = plant.

    If you don't believe it, just call for warranty on the water heater and tell them it was built in the 40th week. Then you can wish in one hand and .....well you know in the other.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    First character = Month, Second and third digit = Year, Forth digit = plant.

    If you don't believe it, just call for warranty on the water heater and tell them it was built in the 40th week. Then you can wish in one hand and .....well you know in the other.
    {Blue in the face}.

    Its no wonder your confused. There is NO WAY there is ANY warranty whatsoever on this ancient (by WH standards) left!

    For some of you confused as transfers of ownership of entities, divestiture, use of brand names, etc. what was then and who did what when has been muddled by those relying on the disinformation repleat on the WWW by non-authorities, disclaimers ignored, and Peckish insistance that somebody unknown and unammed must have said 'whatever' because he (peck) says so.

    The FACTS as to the fiscal year accounting period, the fiscal year production coding and the fiscal year accounting and reconcilliation for warranty purposes (as well as for recall purposes) is well documented in the court system regarding the periods that include the 90s through full final complete fiscal year 2001 by State Industries as a privately held entity Pre A.O. Smith (publically traded corporation) announcement of intent to acquire which was released AFTER Sept. 30, 2001, and the re-attribution of the most former State coding identifiers to be converted to calendar year production cycles to coincide with the new owner's (AO SMITH) accounting cycles.

    I covered this extensively and complete with quotes and referenced SWORN sources, subpoena'd and discovery documentation from State Industries (pre and post acquisition) official records and from certification entities, engineers, etc. admitted exhibits, depositions, STIPULATIONS, etc. and from court case(s) back in a discussion topic from 2010 entitled "Reliance Water Heater Age".

    It can be reviewed at this link: http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...firmation.html

    Finally, regarding the chatter about why the WH might be slightly newer than the first date of occupancy for new construction I'll offer some thoughts. Consider the following: Possiblitiy of a warranty replacement through the manufacturer's warranty program - when having done so, the replacement water heater irrespective of its manufacture date or installation date only carries a warranty to the date the original (one having been replaced) held (remaining unexpired warranty of the original warrranty period for the original water heater which was replaced). If a builder/developer afforded a warranty either directly or through a 3rd party, or the first owner acquired a warranty, and there was some problem with an original NG water heater, it may have been replaced under same. A flooding event for the WH and the HO's HO insurance may have covered a replacement. A spec 75 gal size may have proved excessive (and expensive to run) for the family's needs (and excessive reheating thus hydrogen gas build up within the DHW system and concentration of sediments); A spec 40 gal size may have proved too small for the family's demands/usage cycles, simple example an extra large washing machine for a family which prefers using hot water prewash cycles with hot water wash cycles and a warm water rinse; or a family with teens where the entire family showers and the in quick sucession, or a simple upgrade to a large soaker or hydromassage bathtub. Furthermore, it is not uncommon for new construction, either individually contracted or by a developer, to install a water heating system and other appliances using electric or delivered fuel to acquire occupancy before NG utility service is established. Later as NG utility service may expand to include the property, it is not uncommon for a HO to have later "changed over" to the faster-responding and less expensive, and many times more reliable (uninterupted) method for DHW. There are myriad possibilites as to WHY a DHWH may have been replaced a short time after a home was first granted a C of O.


  36. #36
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    {Blue in the face}.

    Its no wonder your confused. There is NO WAY there is ANY warranty whatsoever on this ancient (by WH standards) left!

    For some of you confused as transfers of ownership of entities, divestiture, use of brand names, etc. what was then and who did what when has been muddled by those relying on the disinformation repleat on the WWW by non-authorities, disclaimers ignored, and Peckish insistance that somebody unknown and unammed must have said 'whatever' because he (peck) says so.

    The FACTS as to the fiscal year accounting period, the fiscal year production coding and the fiscal year accounting and reconcilliation for warranty purposes (as well as for recall purposes) is well documented in the court system regarding the periods that include the 90s through full final complete fiscal year 2001 by State Industries as a privately held entity Pre A.O. Smith (publically traded corporation) announcement of intent to acquire which was released AFTER Sept. 30, 2001, and the re-attribution of the most former State coding identifiers to be converted to calendar year production cycles to coincide with the new owner's (AO SMITH) accounting cycles.

    I covered this extensively and complete with quotes and referenced SWORN sources, subpoena'd and discovery documentation from State Industries (pre and post acquisition) official records and from certification entities, engineers, etc. admitted exhibits, depositions, STIPULATIONS, etc. and from court case(s) back in a discussion topic from 2010 entitled "Reliance Water Heater Age".

    It can be reviewed at this link: http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...firmation.html

    Finally, regarding the chatter about why the WH might be slightly newer than the first date of occupancy for new construction I'll offer some thoughts. Consider the following: Possiblitiy of a warranty replacement through the manufacturer's warranty program - when having done so, the replacement water heater irrespective of its manufacture date or installation date only carries a warranty to the date the original (one having been replaced) held (remaining unexpired warranty of the original warrranty period for the original water heater which was replaced). If a builder/developer afforded a warranty either directly or through a 3rd party, or the first owner acquired a warranty, and there was some problem with an original NG water heater, it may have been replaced under same. A flooding event for the WH and the HO's HO insurance may have covered a replacement. A spec 75 gal size may have proved excessive (and expensive to run) for the family's needs (and excessive reheating thus hydrogen gas build up within the DHW system and concentration of sediments); A spec 40 gal size may have proved too small for the family's demands/usage cycles, simple example an extra large washing machine for a family which prefers using hot water prewash cycles with hot water wash cycles and a warm water rinse; or a family with teens where the entire family showers and the in quick sucession, or a simple upgrade to a large soaker or hydromassage bathtub. Furthermore, it is not uncommon for new construction, either individually contracted or by a developer, to install a water heating system and other appliances using electric or delivered fuel to acquire occupancy before NG utility service is established. Later as NG utility service may expand to include the property, it is not uncommon for a HO to have later "changed over" to the faster-responding and less expensive, and many times more reliable (uninterupted) method for DHW. There are myriad possibilites as to WHY a DHWH may have been replaced a short time after a home was first granted a C of O.
    H.G. Give State a call at the number given by Scott. Wade through the automated answering service, just like I did, and find your way to the "warranty" question. Then talk to the nice young man that is responsible for determining "warranties" by serial numbers. Then cross your legs and give your mouth a chance!

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Sources: References regarding the Iowa case Myers v Reliance Water Heater, State Industries, A.O. Smith, et al. Appeal of Summary Judgement (reversed and remanded) see link:
    SCOTT MYERS, Individually, and SCOTT MYERS, as Parent as Next Friend

    note references to:

    Deposition of Donald J. McKeeby Jr. He has been employed by State Industries as a claims manager since 1991. McKeeby Deposition exibit:
    State Industries computer printouts. One such printout shows a water heater with a serial number of "B95355638" was manufactured on "11/10/94."

    Affidavit of Steve Maxey, the national technical sales manager for State Industries, has worked for the company in various positions since 1967. Maxey's affidavit in support of Motion for Summary Judgement.

    Regarding to confirmation of additional prefix letter possible see Reliance Water Heater Recall of propane water heaters manfactured from dates in 2004 to dates in 2005 with sooting problems. Note also change in date coding system then corresponded with actual calendar month and year of manufacture (CPSC and Reliance web site - Recall Notice).

    Further note proprietary (mfg - NTL, etc.) record keeping relative to OEM equip/componant changes/production staff/plant closures/re-tooling/certification, testing, break down of cycling the multi-digit individual serial numbers which followed. All plants did not have consistant 52 week roll-off data plating throughout all the years.

    (Hopefully, for the last time necessary Manufacturer's & NTL data plating certifications/affirmations WERE NOT POST-DATED.
    Peck's justification 'somebody said so' claims are false. Its merely his construct for his means to configure the date of manufacture for a period which began in the 80s and continued through the final full fiscal year prouction non-AO SMITH acquisition.


  38. #38
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Sources: References regarding the Iowa case Myers v Reliance Water Heater, State Industries, A.O. Smith, et al. Appeal of Summary Judgement (reversed and remanded) see link:
    SCOTT MYERS, Individually, and SCOTT MYERS, as Parent as Next Friend

    note references to:

    Deposition of Donald J. McKeeby Jr. He has been employed by State Industries as a claims manager since 1991. McKeeby Deposition exibit:
    State Industries computer printouts. One such printout shows a water heater with a serial number of "B95355638" was manufactured on "11/10/94."

    Affidavit of Steve Maxey, the national technical sales manager for State Industries, has worked for the company in various positions since 1967. Maxey's affidavit in support of Motion for Summary Judgement.

    Regarding to confirmation of additional prefix letter possible see Reliance Water Heater Recall of propane water heaters manfactured from dates in 2004 to dates in 2005 with sooting problems. Note also change in date coding system then corresponded with actual calendar month and year of manufacture (CPSC and Reliance web site - Recall Notice).

    Further note proprietary (mfg - NTL, etc.) record keeping relative to OEM equip/componant changes/production staff/plant closures/re-tooling/certification, testing, break down of cycling the multi-digit individual serial numbers which followed. All plants did not have consistant 52 week roll-off data plating throughout all the years.

    (Hopefully, for the last time necessary Manufacturer's & NTL data plating certifications/affirmations WERE NOT POST-DATED.
    Peck's justification 'somebody said so' claims are false. Its merely his construct for his means to configure the date of manufacture for a period which began in the 80s and continued through the final full fiscal year prouction non-AO SMITH acquisition.
    How in the world do you prove yourself wrong and then say you are right.

    B95 Looks like Feb. of 1995, that's about "three months after "11/10/94."

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  39. #39
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    How in the world do you prove yourself wrong and then say you are right.

    B95 Looks like Feb. of 1995, that's about "three months after "11/10/94."
    It doesn't matter what it looks like, what matter is what it IS, i.e. FACT.

    States 1995 Fiscal year began October 1994 - the first production month October.
    Second production month of the FY 1995 was NOVEMBER.
    The Fiscal year and final production month for FY 1995 was September. 1995 year ENDED September 30, 1995.l

    WH's produced in February were done so in the FIFTH production month of FY 1995 and coded such.

    The warranty was up on your subject WH more than a warranty period ago.

    Its been explained ad infin. you've been referred to a previous discussion filled with links and references.

    Apparently, you're incapable of understanding or have no wish to comprehend a SIMPLE concept.

    Enjoy your ignorance, you wear it well.


  40. #40
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Note that Watson himself posted this:
    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    All plants did not have consistant 52 week roll-off data plating throughout all the years.
    I personally talked with the technical people at State several times regarding various items, including several times about the date of manufacture - EVERY TIME, and EVERYONE, told me that the date of manufacture was POST DATED BY 3 MONTHS to allow for time for installation after manufacture before the warranty period started and that the start of the warranty period was based on the date of manufacture.

    (Hopefully, for the last time necessary Manufacturer's & NTL data plating certifications/affirmations WERE NOT POST-DATED.
    Peck's justification 'somebody said so' claims are false. Its merely his construct for his means to configure the date of manufacture for a period which began in the 80s and continued through the final full fiscal year prouction non-AO SMITH acquisition.
    HOPEFULLY ... which is A LOT TO ASK of Watson ... and for what is HOPEFULLY the last time - State POSTED DATED the date of manufacture on the water heaters. THE WATER HEATER IN QUESTION AND WHICH STARTED THIS TREAD is one of those ... which is why a water heater with a date of manufacture OF FEBRUARY 2000 was found in a home BUILT IN 1999. That would not be possible unless - oh my - the date of manufacture was "post dated" to show a later date than the actual date of manufacture.

    Hopefully ... hopefully ... this should end Watson continued tirade posting incorrect information.

    Added with edit:
    Watson says "All plants did not have consistant 52 week roll-off data plating throughout all the years." and then tries to insist that all plants used consistent dating through all years and that none were dated with with a date of manufacture as State themselves told me ... is it just me do others also see Watson contradicting himself in those two mutually exclusive statements?

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 11-12-2013 at 06:47 PM.
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  41. #41
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Peck you've gone too far.

    I was referring to the additional information that may be gleaned from the digits following the fiscal year indiction.

    If you call "State" today you are speaking to A.O. Smith owned entity. A.O. Smith acquired State Industries after State Industries' FYE 2001. You have no idea what the 40% market-share privately held entity did or didn't do while you were still sweeping disco floors.

    You do not have a clue as to what you are speaking of.

    There was no post dating and you are beyond foolish in your stupendous remarks, which are merely akin to a tea-party talking head trying to push the former beauty pagent, weather-girl, Gov from Alaska as the least bit literate on the workings of our Great Nation.

    I've named the authoritative individuals and their positions with State Industries at the time period relevant to the production of the subject WH.

    All you can do is claim some voice at an answering center, nameless and likely better educated than you.

    As far as your claimed familiarity with the production certifications at State Ind. during the relevant era, that's desperate fiction.


  42. #42
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Note that Watson himself posted this:


    I personally talked with the technical people at State several times regarding various items, including several times about the date of manufacture - EVERY TIME, and EVERYONE, told me that the date of manufacture was POST DATED BY 3 MONTHS to allow for time for installation after manufacture before the warranty period started and that the start of the warranty period was based on the date of manufacture.



    HOPEFULLY ... which is A LOT TO ASK of Watson ... and for what is HOPEFULLY the last time - State POSTED DATED the date of manufacture on the water heaters. THE WATER HEATER IN QUESTION AND WHICH STARTED THIS TREAD is one of those ... which is why a water heater with a date of manufacture OF FEBRUARY 2000 was found in a home BUILT IN 1999. That would not be possible unless - oh my - the date of manufacture was "post dated" to show a later date than the actual date of manufacture.

    Hopefully ... hopefully ... this should end Watson continued tirade posting incorrect information.

    Added with edit:
    Watson says "All plants did not have consistant 52 week roll-off data plating throughout all the years." and then tries to insist that all plants used consistent dating through all years and that none were dated with with a date of manufacture as State themselves told me ... is it just me do others also see Watson contradicting himself in those two mutually exclusive statements?
    Look Peck.

    THE MANUFACTURE CODE for the SECOND FISCAL MONTH OF THE 2000 FISCAL YEAR ending SEPTEMBER 30, 2000 IS a DATE OF MANUFACTURE OF NOVEMBER 1999!!! NOT FEBUARY 2000!!!

    B for month did not equal FEBRUARY for State branded water heaters until February 2002 when State Ind. was then under A.O. Smith ownership.


  43. #43
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    B for month did not equal FEBRUARY for State branded water heaters until February 2002 when State Ind. was then under A.O. Smith ownership.
    LOOK WATSON ... (sigh) ...

    You need to get in your time machine and go back in time and call State back then, it appears you will be greatly surprised what they tell you ... which is not anything like what you are "gleening" from the information you keep trying to track down.

    Before the others get tired of this back and forth, if they are not already tired of it, I gave THE FINAL ANSWER several posts back ...

    Carry on if you so insist.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  44. #44
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    It doesn't matter what it looks like, what matter is what it IS, i.e. FACT.

    States 1995 Fiscal year began October 1994 - the first production month October.
    Second production month of the FY 1995 was NOVEMBER.
    The Fiscal year and final production month for FY 1995 was September. 1995 year ENDED September 30, 1995.l

    WH's produced in February were done so in the FIFTH production month of FY 1995 and coded such.

    The warranty was up on your subject WH more than a warranty period ago.

    Its been explained ad infin. you've been referred to a previous discussion filled with links and references.

    Apparently, you're incapable of understanding or have no wish to comprehend a SIMPLE concept.

    Enjoy your ignorance, you wear it well.
    As long as I am saying the same thing as the voice on the end of the phone, when the customer calls for warranty, I'm fine with that.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  45. #45
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Peck you've gone too far.

    ............
    There was no post dating and you are beyond foolish in your stupendous remarks, which are merely akin to a tea-party talking head trying to push the former beauty pagent, weather-girl, Gov from Alaska as the least bit literate on the workings of our Great Nation.

    .........................................that's desperate fiction.



    HG,
    Really does not serve your argument well. When discourse fails and frustration begins your political tangent only turns, introspective, people away. Not to mention the failed attempt of a personal attack to support your position.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Fuel for the fire---

    © The Inspector’s Journal(TIJ) 2006; revised Aug 2011 (http://www.inspectorsjournal.com)

    2011823173835_WaterHeaterSerialNumberDecoder

    State Industries
    (Bought by A.O. Smith in 2008. A.O. Smith now uses this code.)

    0904*******
    (April 2009) Beginning 2008, state uses an 11-digit alpha-numeric serial number. The first two positions are the year followed by a two digit month. Position 5 is a letter followed by 6 numbers


    C05*******
    (March 2005) Prior to 2008, state used a 1-letter month followed by a 2-digit year
    A thru N = Jan thru Dec
    (Excludes the letter I)


  46. #46
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    HG,Really does not serve your argument well. When discourse fails and frustration begins your political tangent only turns, introspective, people away. Not to mention the failed attempt of a personal attack to support your position.- - - Updated - - -Fuel for the fire---© The Inspector’s Journal(TIJ) 2006; revised Aug 2011 (Home Inspector Forums, TIJ The Inspector's Journal) 2011823173835_WaterHeaterSerialNumberDecoder State Industries (Bought by A.O. Smith in 2008. A.O. Smith now uses this code.) 0904******* (April 2009) Beginning 2008, state uses an 11-digit alpha-numeric serial number. The first two positions are the year followed by a two digit month. Position 5 is a letter followed by 6 numbers C05******* (March 2005) Prior to 2008, state used a 1-letter month followed by a 2-digit year A thru N = Jan thru Dec (Excludes the letter I)
    ROTFLMAOMore internet fiction. most if not all AO smith brands converted to all numeric end of year 2007. AO smith acquired State prior to 2002 production after the holiday plant shut down after armitage transfer completed. From AO Smith's acquisition forward State Ind. production was besed on calendar production coding, as was the componants to the industry production division acquired.Pecks assertions are FICTION, Period. Pffft. no fire, no fuel. All you passed was gas. Another knows nothing (TIJ lists, pluease!)


  47. #47
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Peck you've gone too far.

    There was no post dating and you are beyond foolish in your stupendous remarks, which are merely akin to a tea-party talking head trying to push the former beauty pagent, weather-girl, Gov from Alaska as the least bit literate on the workings of our Great Nation.
    .
    Holy crap what is this site/topic turning into.
    I had to double check what site I was on. At first I thought I made a mistake and went to the nacho enquier

    What's next? Is it going to be GW Bushes fault Jerry doesn't understand how to determine the age of a water heater

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
    www.inspectaz.com

  48. #48
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    Default Re: State water heater age

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    What's next? Is it going to be GW Bushes fault Jerry doesn't understand how to determine the age of a water heater
    Oh, I did it wrong? I thought all I had to do was walk up to the water heater and politely ask how old it was, then write down what it told me - you mean water heaters lie about their age? Oh, my, what will be next?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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