Thread: hand held shower cross connection

New construction. I shouldn't assume there's a built in back flow preventer in this situation, should I? I'm no expert on the latest in plumbing fixtures.

shower.jpg

Originally Posted by John Arnold

New construction. I shouldn't assume there's a built in back flow preventer in this situation, should I? I'm no expert on the latest in plumbing fixtures.

shower.jpg

I don' know about the back flow preventer, but that is the strangest, ugliest, scariest, fixture I have ever seen.

This is no different that a spray wand on a kitchen sink
I would need to know more about the fixture to say for certain, but yes, I think it does have backflow protection designed into the fixture, but not a backflow preventer.
The tub faucet is (should be ) at least 1" above the tub rim.
This provides an airgap for backflow protection.
Since the hand held is connected to the tub faucet I think this provides backflow protection to the hand held as well.

Added in edit
I'm going to try and find out more about this.

Originally Posted by Vern Heiler

I don' know about the back flow preventer, but that is the strangest, ugliest, scariest, fixture I have ever seen.

I know, it looks like some kind of alien probe. The other bath has the same thing, except connected to a typical overhead shower.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

I know, it looks like some kind of alien probe. .

Sounds like that has a History to it !!!

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

The tub faucet is (should be ) at least 1" above the tub rim.
This provides an airgap for backflow protection.
Since the hand held is connected to the tub faucet this provides backflow protection to the hand held as well.

That would hold true if the hand held shower was not long enough to hang below that 1" above the overflow rim of the tub. Also, the 1" air gap is a minimum, if the opening of the tub spout is greater than 1/2" then the air gap would be required to be 2x the diameter of the opening - but who is measuring ...

I understand this tub faucet may not be a Kohler, but they are likely similar in design
This is what it said on Kohler's site


http://www.us.kohler.com/us/static/helpTopicsHelper.jsp?helpId=946
Do I Need To Add A Back Flow Prevention Device to My Handshower?
All KOHLER hand showers have an integral check valve/flow control built inside hand shower, this along with a second check valve that are included with some hoses will prevent contaminated water from reaching the potable water supply and to regulate the flow discharge of the handset will meet most local Model Plumbing Codes and Federal laws. However, some local and state Model Plumbing Codes do not recognize these integral dual check valves as a primary source of backflow prevention. Rather, these local and state Model Plumbing Codes require backflow prevention devices at a point up stream of the inlet to the hose of the hand set and downstream from the outlet port of the mixing valve serving the hand held shower hand set.
A customer requiring additional back flow prevention (their inspector or codes require it) will need to install a vacuum breaker (K-9660), diverter valve/vacuum breaker, transfer valve/vacuum breaker or other non-Kohler back flow prevention device.

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Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

That would hold true if the hand held shower was not long enough to hang below that 1" above the overflow rim of the tub. Also, the 1" air gap is a minimum, if the opening of the tub spout is greater than 1/2" then the air gap would be required to be 2x the diameter of the opening - but who is measuring ...

I saw that too, and it made me think of a kitchen sink with a spray wand. Ever seen one of those?

I just talked with my backflow preventer instructor, he said (without seeing it) it's a type of vacuum breaker. Same as a kitchen sink spray wand. Not 100% backflow protection but acceptable in residential applications.

Spray Wand? You misspelled my name; its Ray Wand! Ha ha...

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Spray Wand? You misspelled my name; its Ray Wand! Ha ha...

It took me awhile for me to understand what you were talking about (sometimes I'm kinda slow).
You might not should not have said anything, from now on you will be known as "Spraymond".

Thanks Rick, I had a good chuckle. Clever.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Thanks Rick, I had a good chuckle. Clever.

Glad you enjoyed.
I was trying for funny, but clever was the best I could come up with.

I am kinda disappointed nobody said anything about my "InterSCAM" pun.
I was looking forward to some real burners on that one.

Looks like an Axor or Dornbracht unit
Lots of those valve assemblies built-in back flow preventers, some of them also won't work if there is only water to one side