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  1. #1
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    Default hand held shower cross connection

    New construction. I shouldn't assume there's a built in back flow preventer in this situation, should I? I'm no expert on the latest in plumbing fixtures.

    shower.jpg

    Last edited by John Arnold; 11-08-2013 at 08:29 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    Quote Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
    New construction. I shouldn't assume there's a built in back flow preventer in this situation, should I? I'm no expert on the latest in plumbing fixtures.

    shower.jpg
    I don' know about the back flow preventer, but that is the strangest, ugliest, scariest, fixture I have ever seen.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    This is no different that a spray wand on a kitchen sink
    I would need to know more about the fixture to say for certain, but yes, I think it does have backflow protection designed into the fixture, but not a backflow preventer.
    The tub faucet is (should be ) at least 1" above the tub rim.
    This provides an airgap for backflow protection.
    Since the hand held is connected to the tub faucet I think this provides backflow protection to the hand held as well.

    Added in edit
    I'm going to try and find out more about this.

    Last edited by Rick Cantrell; 11-08-2013 at 01:40 PM.
    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    I don' know about the back flow preventer, but that is the strangest, ugliest, scariest, fixture I have ever seen.
    I know, it looks like some kind of alien probe. The other bath has the same thing, except connected to a typical overhead shower.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    Quote Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
    I know, it looks like some kind of alien probe. .
    Sounds like that has a History to it !!!

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    The tub faucet is (should be ) at least 1" above the tub rim.
    This provides an airgap for backflow protection.
    Since the hand held is connected to the tub faucet this provides backflow protection to the hand held as well.
    That would hold true if the hand held shower was not long enough to hang below that 1" above the overflow rim of the tub. Also, the 1" air gap is a minimum, if the opening of the tub spout is greater than 1/2" then the air gap would be required to be 2x the diameter of the opening - but who is measuring ...

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    I understand this tub faucet may not be a Kohler, but they are likely similar in design
    This is what it said on Kohler's site


    http://www.us.kohler.com/us/static/helpTopicsHelper.jsp?helpId=946

    Do I Need To Add A Back Flow Prevention Device to My Handshower?

    All KOHLER hand showers have an integral check valve/flow control built inside hand shower, this along with a second check valve that are included with some hoses will prevent contaminated water from reaching the potable water supply and to regulate the flow discharge of the handset will meet most local Model Plumbing Codes and Federal laws. However, some local and state Model Plumbing Codes do not recognize these integral dual check valves as a primary source of backflow prevention. Rather, these local and state Model Plumbing Codes require backflow prevention devices at a point up stream of the inlet to the hose of the hand set and downstream from the outlet port of the mixing valve serving the hand held shower hand set.
    A customer requiring additional back flow prevention (their inspector or codes require it) will need to install a vacuum breaker (K-9660), diverter valve/vacuum breaker, transfer valve/vacuum breaker or other non-Kohler back flow prevention device.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    That would hold true if the hand held shower was not long enough to hang below that 1" above the overflow rim of the tub. Also, the 1" air gap is a minimum, if the opening of the tub spout is greater than 1/2" then the air gap would be required to be 2x the diameter of the opening - but who is measuring ...
    I saw that too, and it made me think of a kitchen sink with a spray wand. Ever seen one of those?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    I just talked with my backflow preventer instructor, he said (without seeing it) it's a type of vacuum breaker. Same as a kitchen sink spray wand. Not 100% backflow protection but acceptable in residential applications.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    Spray Wand? You misspelled my name; its Ray Wand! Ha ha...


  10. #10
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Spray Wand? You misspelled my name; its Ray Wand! Ha ha...
    It took me awhile for me to understand what you were talking about (sometimes I'm kinda slow).
    You might not should not have said anything, from now on you will be known as "Spraymond".

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    Thanks Rick, I had a good chuckle. Clever.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Thanks Rick, I had a good chuckle. Clever.
    Glad you enjoyed.
    I was trying for funny, but clever was the best I could come up with.

    I am kinda disappointed nobody said anything about my "InterSCAM" pun.
    I was looking forward to some real burners on that one.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: hand held shower cross connection

    Looks like an Axor or Dornbracht unit
    Lots of those valve assemblies built-in back flow preventers, some of them also won't work if there is only water to one side

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