Thread: Basement bathroom with no ejector pump

I run into this from time to time. Home built in the 1990 with a bathroom in the basement and no ejector pump. All systems drain just fine. Should this be written up as missing ejector even thought all is working? Could in the future home owner expect any problems.

Thanks in advance.

If its on sewers then the waste line must be below the basement floor, which means if flows to street sewer via gravity.

The house only needs a sewage/ejector pump if the sewers are overhead. Gravity will take the bathroom waste outside.

However, if the outside sewer gets blocked for some reason the back-up in the basement will be extra nasty. I would tell the buyers to invest in a TV sewer scope by a licensed plumber.

Here is my link at my website on the subject. I also made a video on Youtube.

http://www.inspection2020.com/TV.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDhSXCZJ5n8

FWIW, I got threatened with a lawsuit once for not warning a client that sewers can back up because of tree root blockage, etc. and the results are very unpleasant.

It would be a wise move to install a one-way valve on the main waste line so sewer back ups won't flood the basement.

Originally Posted by Mike Lamb

The house only needs a sewage/ejector pump if the sewers are overhead. Gravity will take the bathroom waste outside.

However, if the outside sewer gets blocked for some reason the back-up in the basement will be extra nasty. I would tell the buyers to invest in a TV sewer scope by a licensed plumber.

Here is my link at my website on the subject. I also made a video on Youtube.

http://www.inspection2020.com/TV.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDhSXCZJ5n8

FWIW, I got threatened with a lawsuit once for not warning a client that sewers can back up because of tree root blockage, etc. and the results are very unpleasant.

Mike thank so much. This is extremely helpful. Have super 2014 thanks again.

Originally Posted by fidel gonzales

Mike thank so much. This is extremely helpful. Have super 2014 thanks again.

Yes you are welcome too!

Originally Posted by fidel gonzales

I run into this from time to time. Home built in the 1990 with a bathroom in the basement and no ejector pump. All systems drain just fine. Should this be written up as missing ejector even thought all is working? Could in the future home owner expect any problems.

Thanks in advance.

Fidel,
I read the question and it confused me a little. Is it a standard practice, your local, that all bathrooms in the basement have ejector pumps? I ask since you prefaced that you run into this from time to time. Making me think that, lack of an ejector, it is the atypical situation.

Originally Posted by fidel gonzales

Mike thank so much. This is extremely helpful. Have super 2014 thanks again.

Any time. Good luck this year.

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Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

Fidel,
I read the question and it confused me a little. Is it a standard practice, your local, that all bathrooms in the basement have ejector pumps? I ask since you prefaced that you run into this from time to time. Making me think that, lack of an ejector, it is the atypical situation.

It's a good question and it is unusual. Just about all post 1960 construction I see in the Chgo. area has overhead sewer so it is odd that a 1990 house does not have this. Like Fidel I do see it sometimes in newer homes but it is rare. I don't know if any localities require it.

FWIW, I got threatened with a lawsuit once for not warning a client that sewers can back up because of tree root blockage, etc. and the results are very unpleasant. Mike Lamb

- - - Updated - - -
I would only add this. Always look at the sewer discharge pipe, if you see trees inline recommend it be scoped. In addition, any slabs I do, I always recommend it.

As Mike has pointed out he was sued, I've read about this happening to other inspectors. cya

Steve Gaudet
Gaudet Inspections LLC | Protect your investment and have it inspected! call 603-714-8628

Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

Fidel,
I read the question and it confused me a little. Is it a standard practice, your local, that all bathrooms in the basement have ejector pumps? I ask since you prefaced that you run into this from time to time. Making me think that, lack of an ejector, it is the atypical situation.

Hi Garry,

I just wanted to understand when the pump was needed. Ray gave me the answer I was looking for. See his response. The house that I just did, the basement was completely finished and included a bathroom, shower,toilet and sink. All flush perfectly. Couldn't see any of the plumbing and how it was routed. Didn't see a ejector pump. So I was curious to determine if one was needed.

I managed to get sued once over not reporting that a sewer line had been Rotorooted. Three years and about $20,000 later I won. Won? That's what the said.

Originally Posted by Stephen Gaudet

As Mike has pointed out he was sued, I've read about this happening to other inspectors. cya

Steve Gaudet
Gaudet Inspections LLC | Protect your investment and have it inspected! call 603-714-8628

I was not sued. Just threatened. It was a wake up call, however. If you do this long enough you make mistakes and hopefully the mistake does not result in a lawsuit. No one has sued me in 18 years.

The condition of Sewer lines cannot be determined by this inspection alone, therefore, I recommend the sewer lines be video scoped to determine condition.
This is not a CYA statement. It is however information that educates the client on the limitation of the inspection and what can/should be done.

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

The condition of Sewer lines cannot be determined by this inspection alone, therefore, I recommend the sewer lines be video scoped to determine condition.
This is not a CYA statement. It is however information that educates the client on the limitation of the inspection and what can/should be done.

Hi Rick, Happy New year. The recommendation to video the lines is standard on all my reports even if the home is only year old and there mature trees around.

Originally Posted by fidel gonzales

Hi Rick, Happy New year. The recommendation to video the lines is standard on all my reports even if the home is only year old and there mature trees around.

Very good. It's on mine also.

Originally Posted by fidel gonzales

Hi Garry,

I just wanted to understand when the pump was needed. Ray gave me the answer I was looking for. See his response. The house that I just did, the basement was completely finished and included a bathroom, shower,toilet and sink. All flush perfectly. Couldn't see any of the plumbing and how it was routed. Didn't see a ejector pump. So I was curious to determine if one was needed.

It's actually quite simple. Water (or anything that's in it) doesn't run uphill. In some areas (Chicago being one) the public sewers are installed at a higher elevation than the basements of the houses they're serving. Anything coming from the 1st floor or above uses gravity to run to the sewer as it should. They run into a problem however, when they install a bathroom in the basement. They've then got to figure out how to get the sewage up to the elevation of the sewer lateral that will take it to the public sewer line, and that's where the ejector sump and pump come in. They temporarily hold and then pump the stuff up to the level of the sewer line. Therefore, if the basement fixtures are working okay, the sewer is either downhill from said fixtures, or there is an ejector sump and pump if it is not. I would suggest that if this is brand new construction, or a newly installed basement fixture that has never been used, a few flushes might be in order to determine that things aren't backing up.

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Some towns have in-ground (gravity sewers) with out any plumbing tied into them in the basement level. Claridain Hills s one that comes to mind. If there is any plumbing in the basement it is ran to a pump and pumped into the toilet stack. The reason this town requires this is their city sewer system backs up frequently.

Now as for overhead sewers and gravity sewers requirements in the State of Illinois, it is up to the local city to make the requirements of which type of system they prefer. In Lombard, IL gravity sewers are just fine, same as in Chicago. In Chicago if the neighborhood is known to flood, it is required to install a flood control system.

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

The condition of Sewer lines cannot be determined by this inspection alone, therefore, I recommend the sewer lines be video scoped to determine condition.
This is not a CYA statement. It is however information that educates the client on the limitation of the inspection and what can/should be done.

Personally, it sounds like a CYA statement. I would suggest telling the client that the condition cannot be determined and that video inspection is an option. I would save recommending scoping the sewer for times when there is a potential concern. Too many CYA statements in reports weaken the report.

A few years ago I performed a structural inspection on a house with major rot in the crawl space. The HI did not find the access opening (in the floor of the closet adjacent to the front door). He recommended further evaluation, which is fine. I asked the client why he did not have this evaluated before buying the house. His answer was that he also recommended further evaluation of the roof, electric, plumbing ,heating.... The client just thought it was all CYA.

I would think if an inspector is going to recommend further investigation he/she would be wise to state the reason why FI is required. Just stating FI for the sake of covering ones backside may not be enough in a courts view. i.e. Mr. client the crawlspace was not accessible due to sealed hatch, since the inspection is non-destructive, this area should be further investigated by entering prior to close of title...

Originally Posted by Mark Reinmiller

Personally, it sounds like a CYA statement. I would suggest telling the client that the condition cannot be determined and that video inspection is an option. I would save recommending scoping the sewer for times when there is a potential concern. Too many CYA statements in reports weaken the report.

You say CYA,
I say, it's to inform the buyer on the limitations of a home inspection.
So why do I (routinely) recommend a video inspection?
My post was #13, 3 people had already posted that they had been sued or threatened to be sued before my post. So, it seems too me that a sewer line is a relatively common problem. The cost to dig up and replace a sewer line can easily be a few thousand, while the cost of a video inspection is around $200.
BTW
The only time I have been threatened with a lawsuit was because of a sewer line.
Nothing became of it, but it did make me think.
The buyer spent over $5k replacing the sewer line. Had I recommended a video inspection they may have had the seller replace the sewer line.
I don't think recommending a video inspection is CYA, I think it's acting in the interest of the buyer.
Do I recommend a video inspection every time, No, but more often than not I do.

I also recommend a shower pan test on every tiled shower.
Again, this is not a CYA. I have seen enough leaking shower pans to know that they can and sometimes do leak. The cost to re-tile a shower can easily be $2-3k.
Both, the sewer line problem and a leaking shower pan are costly too repair, but both can be discovered by additional test/ inspections. Therefore, I think it only prudent to recommend these test be performed.

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

You say CYA,
I say, it's to inform the buyer on the limitations of a home inspection.
So why do I (routinely) recommend a video inspection?
My post was #13, 3 people had already posted that they had been sued or threatened to be sued before my post. So, it seems too me that a sewer line is a relatively common problem. The cost to dig up and replace a sewer line can easily be a few thousand, while the cost of a video inspection is around $200.
BTW
The only time I have been threatened with a lawsuit was because of a sewer line.
Nothing became of it, but it did make me think.
The buyer spent over $5k replacing the sewer line. Had I recommended a video inspection they may have had the seller replace the sewer line.
I don't think recommending a video inspection is CYA, I think it's acting in the interest of the buyer.
Do I recommend a video inspection every time, No, but more often than not I do.

Agreed. It's a CYCA (Cover Your Client's Ass).

Since a fireplace can burn a house down, I also recommend a Level II inspection for fireplaces (the NFPA also requires it). The condition of the chimney liner is important and it's something I cannot see during an inspection just like the underground sewers.

Originally Posted by Mike Lamb

Agreed. It's a CYCA (Cover Your Client's Ass).

Since a fireplace can burn a house down, I also recommend a Level II inspection for fireplaces (the NFPA also requires it). The condition of the chimney liner is important and it's something I cannot see during an inspection just like the underground sewers.

Good point