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  1. #1
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    Apr 2014
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    FL, TX
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    Default Shower Drain, weep holes?

    I am positing this for a friend in the Dallas area. I have not seen the property, only pictures. A "contractor" engaged in a bathroom remodel and had taken over 2 months. He showed sometimes, called and said he was on his way and never showed. Eventually he took some materials for another job the client had and told her he would deduct the material from his bill.

    Overall, the job looks good in some ways and very juvenile in others. Tiles that do not align properly, grout lines that vary in width, exposed shower liner outside the enclosure at the sheetrock. The curb wider at one end than the other, and the curb cap overhanging inside the shower over 1/2 inch (mostly at one end). The drain assembly is mounted just above the tiles so that it wont properly drain that last mm or two of water. I could go on but you get the idea there is much more. Needless to say the contractor was kicked from the job and given a no-trespass notice.

    The question is about the shower drain. I beleive that this drain has to have weep holes in accordance with codes? (to drain the water that weeps under the tiles into the drain). I am looking at a picture of the drain and have asked the friend to look as well. We can't discern whether this drain has weep holes or not. I dont think so, it looks like an exterior sidewalk type drain to me but what do I know?

    Can anyone tell me if this drain is the proper drain for this project or if there is a way to be sure the drain is correct without removing the tiles there? My opinion doesn't matter, what matters is that this is not a swimming pool under the tile.IMG_8074.JPG

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    26,251

    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    The photo is not of sufficient quality (resolution, angle, clarity, focus, etc) to tell what type of drain it is, but ... does the drain go straight down or at an angle - it looks like it goes down at an angle in the photo, but that could just be the angle the photo was taken.

    Just as important as the weep holes is the fact that the pan liner needs to be sloped at 1/4" per foot below the liner bottom - and I doubt it is (based on your description of the work).

    Sounds to me like someone was doing this without a permit and using an unlicensed contractor ... to save money ... and it just cost them dearly ... as that likely needs to be ripped out and down all over again - this time with permits and a licensed contractor (plumber - a shower stall is a plumbing fixture, it is a shower receptor).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Apr 2014
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    FL, TX
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    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    y ... as that likely needs to be ripped out and down all over again - this time with permits and a licensed contractor (plumber - a shower stall is a plumbing fixture, it is a shower receptor).
    THanks Jerry.

    He apparently also re-routed an AC condensate line (from the overflow pipe of the removed bathtub? but that was buried in a wall!!!)...and a friend of mine looked and can't figure out what the helll the contractor did, he may have buried it inside a wall or even plumbed to to a vent! Funny thing but the AC drip pan drain is directly over the bathroom sink, so re-reouting it to the sink's down drain would be really easy!

    That is what I am thinking as well. I have someone in mind for the home owner to hire as a project manager so that she can take over the work as a homesteaded builder. I trust this guy and the people he would use so that isnt a worry. I will be suggesting that she have some opinions from contractors and bids. If nothing else my guy can save her a lot in tear out and disposal and take the bids for her etc. as she works.

    I will be finding out what the values might be if she hires a contractor vs contracts it herself. Not sure which way she should go, but there are plenty of links on the web showing proper shower builds (usually with all kinds of crazy un-necessary newfangled gadgets supposedly to save time or make the cosmetic work easier).

    Part of the issue is that the "contractor" is still billing her. I have yet to check his licenses, but he has no business license in Dallas, I started there. TX law allows that where state licensed no local is needed, but hs did not display a license number on his billing. IN TX there os no state license for GC, only specific trade licenses, plumbing, electrical, A/C etc. I guess you have seen this kind of problem a few too many times!


  4. #4
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    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Jeanis View Post
    I have someone in mind for the home owner to hire as a project manager so that she can take over the work as a homesteaded builder.
    I suspect Texas is not like this, but, in Florida, if the owner wants to do the work under the owner/builder exemption:
    - they have to do the work themselves, or
    - they have to use licensed contractors, or
    - everyone they use must be an "employee" of theirs (taxes, FICA, etc)
    - or
    - they skirt the law and just do it without a permit and with unlicensed people, and if they get caught they are subject to a fine up to $5,000 just like the unlicensed workers are subject to (few get caught and even fewer get fined, so unpermitted and unlicensed work goes on).

    Basically, in Florida, there are no local licenses, just state licenses. If one is doing work which requires a license, they will be state licensed.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Mexico
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    1,258

    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    Kerdi and several other companies make a drain system that does not use weep holes.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  6. #6
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    Apr 2014
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    FL, TX
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    137

    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Robinson View Post
    Kerdi and several other companies make a drain system that does not use weep holes.
    How does the drain weep moisture from above the liner then? It can't let the water pool under the tile? I looked at the basic dwg and it relly doesn't show it.


  7. #7
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Jeanis View Post
    How does the drain weep moisture from above the liner then? It can't let the water pool under the tile? I looked at the basic dwg and it relly doesn't show it.
    It works like a barrier EIFS works ... okay, bad example.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
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    3,746

    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    Looks like a floor drain, not a shower drain.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Lansdale, PA
    Posts
    876

    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    I have evaluated quite a few stall shower installations that contractors have screwed up. I can't tell you anything about the drain, but if the workmanship is poor, then I can almost guarantee you that the installation is screwed up in ways that you can't see.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Reinmiller View Post
    ... if the workmanship is poor, then I can almost guarantee you that the installation is screwed up in ways that you can't see.
    Especially when you factor in that most contractors try to do their "best work" in the part you see when finished ... and poor workmanship at the finish says a lot about the parts you cannot see then ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    FL, TX
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    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Especially when you factor in that most contractors try to do their "best work" in the part you see when finished ... and poor workmanship at the finish says a lot about the parts you cannot see then ...
    I agree 100% with that evaluation. I have worked in several trades over the years besides quality assurance, CNC programming, quality engineering, manufacturing engineering and project management. I learned a LONG time ago that quality and goodness of product starts with engineering/planning and is first work to the finish.

    When I was a roofer and roofing supervisor, my boss used to look at my work (I got fast but was always precise by nature). He would ask "what do you think we are doing, building a house?". It became an inside joke. That was about 1990ish in CA and those roofs have not needed replaced, not even the cedar shake ones. Saw a few of them when there last month.


  12. #12
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    Apr 2014
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    FL, TX
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    Default Re: Shower Drain, weep holes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Looks like a floor drain, not a shower drain.
    I am pretty sure that you are correct.

    Based on the general agreement here I am going to make a recommendation
    1. open a wall opposite the shower and look for vapor barrier behind the shwoer wall. If it cant be seen the tear it all out.
    2. if vapor barrier exists and there is a way to correct any cosmetic issues on the wall then tear out the pan and bottom section of walls entirely and built up again, checking to assure that the vapor barrier is properly overlapping the pan at the walls.

    I wish I was there it would be so much easier than pictures and guessing.

    I am going to reccomend replacement of any electrical devices heavily sprayed with texture and paint as well. No reason to try and clean them. That will give a chance to ring the electrical lines and find out what the hell he did!


    BTW: this creep "front loaded" his billing. the way he wrote the contract (example only) remove bathtub 3500, install new shower pan 250, install tile 150. This really pissed me off as it shows INTENT to defraud the customer in my opinion. I have NEVER seen anything like this in a billing or contract before!


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