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  1. #1
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    Default multiple material use.

    What do ya'll say when you see multiple material being used. Some of this does not even look compatable.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    That is exactly what I say….

    "Multiple materials have been used for the supply lines, it is never a good idea to mix materials like this due to unforeseen compatibility issues even though no leaks were discovered".

    That is about all I say unless I find a leak or something else that is not right.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    They also broke the bond between pieces of the metal water piping.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quite a common upgrade/repair nowadays.
    Mixed supply plumbing.
    Looks like a leak on the right Shark-bite connector and the soldered connection to the left.
    plumbing leak.GIF
    Lets hope the first point of service ground is upstream the plastic water supply. You never know.

    Sorry for the edits. My WIFI is cutting in and out.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 01-01-2016 at 12:10 PM. Reason: WIFI connection
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    I don't see mixing PEX with copper a problem. In fact I see it frequently in new construction. I'm not aware of any material conflicts between PEX and copper. Have I missed something??


  6. #6
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Mostly the concern that it is disrupting the grounding of the electric panel by mixing copper and plastic without a jumper cable.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    I don't see mixing PEX with copper a problem. In fact I see it frequently in new construction. I'm not aware of any material conflicts between PEX and copper. Have I missed something??
    Interior metal water piping systems are required to be bonded to ground (in case they become energized).

    Cutting the metal water piping (whether copper or galvanized) breaks that required bond connection when any type of nonmetallic piping is used. The metal piping now needs to be bonded around the nonmetallic piping to reestablish the required bond connection.

    If the nonmetallic piping was installed in the first 5 feet of metal piping inside the structure, then - as Bill said - it is possible that the ground connection of the electrical system has been broken.

    If a metal water piping system is cut into an made discontinuous by nonmetallic water piping, the metal water piping needs to have a properly sized jumper installed.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    I got the electrical part. I thought the post was about pipes that might not be compatible (like galvanized and copper). As far as I know, there isn't an issue with PEX and copper touching each other.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    isn't an issue with PEX and copper touching each other.
    None that I know of.

    Here are other issues with PEX. Zinc is added to the copper alloy to increase the strength of the brass. Chlorine, Sunlight, Closed loop systems Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE), Tert-Butyl Alcohol (TBA)

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    I got the electrical part. I thought the post was about pipes that might not be compatible (like galvanized and copper). As far as I know, there isn't an issue with PEX and copper touching each other.
    I also think the post was about different materials for the piping, I didn't want the discussion to be limited to "different materials" when using different materials potentially create issues other than just the different materials - such as bonding and grounding ... especially when copper was shown in the photo under discussion.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I also think the post was about different materials for the piping, I didn't want the discussion to be limited to "different materials" when using different materials potentially create issues other than just the different materials - such as bonding and grounding ... especially when copper was shown in the photo under discussion.
    So you highjacked the thread to take it where YOU wanted to go? :-) Got it Jerry! I agree there are usually other potential problems lurking in the shadows with just about any topic. Good info.
    Happy New Year!!!


  12. #12
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    IMHO, I have no problem with the multiple materials...in fact, I think with the right unions, we could get more materials in there.

    My assumption was that this is a metal piping system (just from the pictures). If it is, I would check to see if both metal sections have been bonded. If only one side has been bonded, I would recommend a bonding jumper be placed over the PEX portion.

    As far as grounding goes, I would make sure that this PEX is not integral to the GES. If it is, I would recommend that the connection be moved to between the PEX and the earth.

    Certified CREIA Inspector
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    So you highjacked the thread to take it where YOU wanted to go? :-) Got it Jerry! I agree there are usually other potential problems lurking in the shadows with just about any topic. Good info.
    Happy New Year!!!
    Nope ... I just wanted to make sure that THE OBVIOUS was indeed obvious because the discussion HAD NOT ADDRESSED that aspect YET.

    My apologies in trying TO HELP MAKE SURE ALL THE ASPECTS were covered.

    Got it, Jack, as long as YOU 'have it covered', there is no need to bring anything up.

    Yep ... Happy New Year Jack ... you sure sound like you are in need of one.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Nope ... I just wanted to make sure that THE OBVIOUS was indeed obvious because the discussion HAD NOT ADDRESSED that aspect YET.

    My apologies in trying TO HELP MAKE SURE ALL THE ASPECTS were covered.

    Got it, Jack, as long as YOU 'have it covered', there is no need to bring anything up.

    Yep ... Happy New Year Jack ... you sure sound like you are in need of one.
    Jerry, I think you completely missed the tone of my post. I tried to use the smily face so you would get the hint that I was saying this in jest. Honestly, I do get it that you wanted to add other aspects to the original question. No reason to be so snarky, use the all caps thing! The Happy New Year part was just my trying to wish you the best for the new year, in a friendly way.
    Sheesh!


  15. #15
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    Jerry, I think you completely missed the tone of my post.
    Jack,

    I did completely miss the tone of your post - my apologies. I couldn't figure out why you were so against expanding the information being discussed ... now I know - you weren't against it. Again, my apologies.

    The reason for the 'all caps' is that I am on my phone and am not able to select text then click bold, italics, or underline ... so this time I used the " ' " (single quote) around it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    When we see something like this we have to assume it was DIY or a Handy Man job. Which should suggest we check for unintended consequences such as breaking the bond. That is if it was ever bonded to start with, most piping in our area is not.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Looks like a leak on the right Shark-bite connector and the soldered
    I hate shark-bite connections except for emergeny repairs maybe, I never use them, looks like is/has leaked
    cant see enough detail but that solder job looks like crap


  18. #18
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Clarke View Post
    I hate shark-bite connections except for emergeny repairs maybe, I never use them, looks like is/has leaked
    cant see enough detail but that solder job looks like crap
    If the materials are used according to their listing you must accept them. Personal preference is one thing but calling something out that is installed per listing as wrong is wrong.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Clarke View Post
    I hate shark-bite connections except for emergeny repairs maybe, I never use them, looks like is/has leaked cant see enough detail but that solder job looks like crap
    Mike, although some may agree while others not, Shark Bite plumbing supply fittings when used in accordance to the manufactures recommended installation specifications are as good as any other non solder plumbing connection.

    Most plumbing failures, soldered, crimped or bitten, come from poor installations, professional or amateur. More likely the later though.

    As for Shark Bite, not cleaning the pipe ends or fittings if/when soiled by the installers dirty hands prior to installation may likely lead to premature failure.

    One way you can tell if your hands are dirty! Go up to your companion and start to get cozen under the blankets and see how far you get before you hear her say, go wash your hands first.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Mike, although some may agree while others not, Shark Bite plumbing supply fittings when used in accordance to the manufactures recommended installation specifications are as good as any other non solder plumbing connection.
    A major issue with SharkBite fittings is that they do not have any approved electrical continuity through them, when used on copper systems the SharkBite fitting needs to have a bond wire around it just like one would do for a water meter.

    Not to problematic to go around one SharkBite fitting, but try to plumb a system using SharkBite fittings on copper and you now have to bond around each SharkBite fitting ... Yikes! ... that is a lot of extra work ... and expense.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    A major issue with SharkBite fittings is that they do not have any approved electrical continuity through them, when used on copper systems the SharkBite fitting needs to have a bond wire around it just like one would do for a water meter.

    Not to problematic to go around one SharkBite fitting, but try to plumb a system using SharkBite fittings on copper and you now have to bond around each SharkBite fitting ... Yikes! ... that is a lot of extra work ... and expense.
    I concur if that is the case.
    But the truth of the matter as I see it, Shark bite are a specialized fitting. For those tough to work in spaces.

    I did not know about the bonding issues. To be honest reading the NEC pipe is utilized for bonding. I have to sharpen my pencil on that electrical component.

    Jerry, I though the biting mechanics engineered into the fitting worked around that bonding issue.
    I will try to find an article on electrical continuity and Shark Bite fittings.
    Much thanks.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    I will try to find an article on electrical continuity and Shark Bite fittings.
    Here is one: http://jerrypeck.com/IFCN/2015-01%20...-01%20IFCN.pdf

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Quote Originally Posted by brian schmitt View Post
    If the materials are used according to their listing you must accept them. Personal preference is one thing but calling something out that is installed per listing as wrong is wrong.
    Agree, was stating my preference only when doing plumbing work, sorry was in a hurry should have elaborated more.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: multiple material use.

    Thank's Jerry.
    Well written.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
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