Thread: (Poly-B) made in Canada CSA approved.

This will be the 5th or 6th home where I have seen the infamous (Poly-B), Dom Da Dum dum.... wait says the wanting to be famous home detective looking for that angle that will propel his/her name in lights. I must warn the home purchasers, I will do so with gusto and zeal to insure my name become infamous throughout the world and beyond!!!!!!
PB.jpg

I have posted this on several threads in several message boards, I have seen PB in Quebec for almost 40 plus years. Over 700.000 Canadian homes. 6 million American home with some home owners investing shortly after in umbrella manufacturing for homes with poly B.
Home construction between 1978 and 1995
Insure the water pressure is lower 60 PSI.
Look at all accessible fittings.
A possible reporting narrative; Very few cases of homes with PB plumbing supply have been reported in Canada to have concerns as in America.
Most reported cases in Canada seem to be related to poor workmanship rather than the piping itself. That can be said for PEX and copper as well.

sorry I forgot a link: The Facts About Polybutylene Pipe Issues | Home Improvement Information Articles | Ask Shell Busey | Housesmart | Surrey BC

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Good luck with that story, I wouldn't want to be the inspector telling someone their Polybutylene is "OK" as long as the temperature is turned down, or other similar folklore.

Dom.

Dom, I understand you being in Orlando, FL, stateside, why you might feel that way, and rightfully so.
As I see it, these components are comparable to stateside FPE Federal Pacific Electric panels, & more over breakers and \Federal \Pioneer Electric panels and breakers.
http://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_Stab_Lok_Hazards.php
Likely two different engineering/manufacture processes dealing with Stateside and Canadian compliance.

From what I have researched though, client recommendations plus Canadian articles, insurance companies in Quebec have sounded no alarm bells.

I have to get more definitive documentation to see the manufacturing differences between stateside and Canadian CSA approved Poly B. When I do I will post it here.

IMHO ! There isn't any PB that is good.

"The presence of polybutylene plumbing was observed. This type of piping has a known history of problems with defective connections and the pipe splitting. During inspection I did not see any problems with the polybutylene plumbing that was visible, but was unable to view all piping. Recommend that you consult with a qualified licensed plumber if you have any concerns and/or for additional information. "

Further info -

Last Updated: Monday, December 29th, 2014, Created: Thursday, September 14th, 2000

Plastic supply water pipe law suits : Poly-B, Kitec, PEX fittings...

I remember Jon hanging around D&G when I picked up certain masonry supplies asking masons for info. Wrong mason wrong info.
He is well versed being a radio personality from my neck of the woods but his narrative is too liberal.

Yes there are problems with PB but Jon capitalizes on old literature.
Most Canadian issues are/were related to installation methods.
Most consumer complaints were out of Alberta.
Oxygen, chlorine, and hot water circulation systems can play a part in degrading PB piping.

If you have PB.
1: A water filter will allow the piping to last longer.
2: Lower the PSI to 60.
3: Not to be used for radiant heating.

Copper: Judge tosses out lawsuit on South County copper pipe leaks - The Orange County Register

In its original design criteria, copper piping was projected to last for (20-25) years, but failure can often occur in as little as two years due to water chemistry.
What Causes Copper Pipe to Leak/Fail? - Restoration Piping Technologies - Cincinnati, Ohio

Here is what I see on a ongoing bases...Pinhole Leaks
The State of Maryland Task Force to Study Pinhole Leaks in Copper Plumbing defines a copper pinhole leak as "the perforation of copper tube, pipe or fittings used for domestic water distribution as the result of pitting corrosion initiated on the interior/waterside surface with the subsequent leakage of water."

No system is perfect and copp[er will be the next major update in amny home within our life time Ray.
Bunk to Jon E.\ narrative.

Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG

He is well versed being a radio personality from my neck of the woods but his narrative is too liberal.

Yes there are problems with PB but Jon capitalizes on old literature.

2010 to 2014 is "old literature"?

"too liberal" - as in you need even more leaks with even more damage to sway the conservative mind of yours?

Yes, there are pockets of the world where the water eats out copper within a couple of years ... "pockets" as in 'localized areas' ... the issues with PB are not in pockets, the areas are spread out all over.

However, you need to be comfortable in when you do ... or do not ... call out items, whether plumbing, electrical, or other.

IMP, and I could be wrong, but this would be old news for homies that look into these types of class action suites.

My reporting narrative explains what has been discovered thus far, links, and I recommend a licensed bonded plumber evaluate the system.
Anyone see lag in InsctonNews server.

Then Robert ....Why did you start this thread?
The crap is NO good!

Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG

This is old news rehashed.

Originally Posted by Roy Lewis

Then Robert ....Why did you start this thread?
The crap is NO good!

This site is buggy.
Roy, I used a harsh narrative to get back sharp responses.
In hindsight I will not do that again.

Someone fix his bloody site.
Christ Brain.
100 bloody dollars year to stop this.
likely hackers fro India.

Robert said in part:

My reporting narrative explains what has been discovered thus far, links, and I recommend a licensed bonded plumber evaluate the system.

Bingo! You have covered your back side. Give the findings and recommendations to your client in order they carry out their due diligence. Whether PB is faulty or not, which is subjective, its up to them to act or not on your opinion.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Robert said in part:

Bingo! You have covered your back side. Give the findings and recommendations to your client in order they carry out their due diligence. Whether PB is faulty or not, which is subjective, its up to them to act or not on your opinion.

Cheers,

Always Ray.
My goodness.
Poly B earned a reputation stateside.
In Alberta I think it was 150 consumer complaints, give or take a dozen cases, and those cases deemed poor instillation practices.

Personally, I would love to see more statistical evidence out of the 700,000 thousand home fitted in Canada with PB and less anecdotal evidence or scar tactics.

Ray, doesn't the BBB carry such data?
You and Roy where master at BBB data.

[QUOTE=ROBERT YOUNG;263339]



Copper: Judge tosses out lawsuit on South County copper pipe leaks - The Orange County Register

In its original design criteria, copper piping was projected to last for (20-25) years, but failure can often occur in as little as two years due to water chemistry.
What Causes Copper Pipe to Leak/Fail? - Restoration Piping Technologies - Cincinnati, Ohio

Here is what I see on a ongoing bases...Pinhole Leaks
The State of Maryland Task Force to Study Pinhole Leaks in Copper Plumbing defines a copper pinhole leak as "the perforation of copper tube, pipe or fittings used for domestic water distribution as the result of pitting corrosion initiated on the interior/waterside surface with the subsequent leakage of water."

No system is perfect and copper will be the next major update in many homes within our life time Ray.
Bunk to Jon E.\ narrative.

IDEA? I have a pinhole leak in the refrigerator ice maker copper supply supply tubing. I couldn't believe it possible and found online an interested answer: It is the lack of a common electrical ground to the fridge. Thus the water becomes a conductor and creates chemical reactions inside the copper pipe that"eats" it. I have to assume there must be some minor current leakage to the case in my fridge.
My 1963 home was wired entirely without a common wire and grounded outlets. The supply line is connected to a plastic water valve.
The high;y technical article was found by a search for"pinhole leaks in copper pipe?"
If you run into pinhole leaks on an inspection then common may be missing. Later today, I shall check the voltages between my fridge and ground. Replacing the tubing is waiting on a round-to-it.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Further info -

Last Updated: Monday, December 29th, 2014, Created: Thursday, September 14th, 2000

Plastic supply water pipe law suits : Poly-B, Kitec, PEX fittings...

They mentioned failure of brass fittings with PEX ?
A lot of the brass stuff is coming from China today and have noticed does not hold up as well as older brass in service. I have not noticed where the brass used for PEX fittings is sourced from yet but much other brass have installed lately can tell there is a difference all I have seen come from China.
Ironic, valves from American valve company, marked made in China, figures.
I have old brass spickets, garden hose pieces, sprays that are as old as I am still in great shape, seems none of the brass outdoor garden stuff I buy lately holds up well either.

Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG

Poly B earned a reputation stateside.
In Alberta I think it was 150 consumer complaints, give or take a dozen cases, and those cases deemed poor instillation practices.

Alberta Govt Fact Sheet - January 6, 2012
http://www.municipalaffairs.alberta....b-bulletin.pdf