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  1. #1

    Default flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Can anyone give me the code and verbiage on smooth wall drain lines under bathroom sinks. I called out the handyman flexible drain line and the agent wants me to supply the code to back it up.
    Thanks
    Mike Richards

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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Richards View Post
    Can anyone give me the code and verbiage on smooth wall drain lines under bathroom sinks. I called out the handyman flexible drain line and the agent wants me to supply the code to back it up.
    Thanks
    Mike Richards
    What codes are used in your area?


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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    The IRC has this:

    P3002.3.1 Drainage. Drainage fittings shall have a smooth interior waterway of the same diameter as the piping served. All fittings shall conform to the type of pipe used. Drainage fittings shall have no ledges, shoulders or reductions which can retard or obstruct drainage flow in the piping. Threaded drainage pipe fittings shall be of the recessed drainage type, black or galvanized. Drainage fittings shall be designed to maintain one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) grade.


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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    To the OP.
    Where are you located? We are not mind readers.
    You don't need code. Those flex lines do not have smooth interiors, hence they are slow to drain and prone to clogging.
    Its not a professional install.


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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Richards View Post
    Can anyone give me the code and verbiage on smooth wall drain lines under bathroom sinks. I called out the handyman flexible drain line and the agent wants me to supply the code to back it up.
    Thanks
    Mike Richards
    Mike you have no obligation to supply codes .Simply give a reason.They should be smooth walled internally to avoid clogs.Why respond and give the guy power over you ? Just my opinion.

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Richards View Post
    Can anyone give me the code and verbiage on smooth wall drain lines under bathroom sinks. I called out the handyman flexible drain line and the agent wants me to supply the code to back it up.
    Thanks
    Mike Richards
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Mike you have no obligation to supply codes .Simply give a reason.They should be smooth walled internally to avoid clogs.Why respond and give the guy power over you ? Just my opinion.
    Bob, in principle I would agree that spewing code is not advisable. When you start where does it end, at least in the report. Explaining a question is something different.

    There are many HIs that say things that are flat out wrong. They may have developed their own reasoning that is based on the wrong facts. Just because an HI says something does not make it correct.

    In mike's case and many others the question about a statement made by an HI is about understanding the reasoning and supportive facts for that statement. If the HI can not clearly and succinctly explain the reasoning behind his statement then he has no valid reason to make that statement.

    As in math a proof is asked to demonstrate the accuracy of an equation. It is not a challenge of ego or position, it is a request to demonstrate validity.

    Bob, in your post I sense that you feel that being questioned is a power/ego positioning issue when you say "Why respond and give the guy power over you ?". You might think about approaching being questioned as an opportunity to educate and inform. Thus you elevate your self in the questioner eyes and maybe make a new best friend, hopefully at least in a business sense. Doing so not in an arrogant condescending tone and demeanor, but in a positive non threatening manor. If you approach it as adversarial that is all it will ever be.

    The real power in in knowledge and the ability to convey that knowledge. Always have three more answers than the person has questions, but that is my opinion.


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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Bob, in principle I would agree that spewing code is not advisable. When you start where does it end, at least in the report. Explaining a question is something different.

    There are many HIs that say things that are flat out wrong. They may have developed their own reasoning that is based on the wrong facts. Just because an HI says something does not make it correct.

    In mike's case and many others the question about a statement made by an HI is about understanding the reasoning and supportive facts for that statement. If the HI can not clearly and succinctly explain the reasoning behind his statement then he has no valid reason to make that statement.

    As in math a proof is asked to demonstrate the accuracy of an equation. It is not a challenge of ego or position, it is a request to demonstrate validity.

    Bob, in your post I sense that you feel that being questioned is a power/ego positioning issue when you say "Why respond and give the guy power over you ?". You might think about approaching being questioned as an opportunity to educate and inform. Thus you elevate your self in the questioner eyes and maybe make a new best friend, hopefully at least in a business sense. Doing so not in an arrogant condescending tone and demeanor, but in a positive non threatening manor. If you approach it as adversarial that is all it will ever be.

    The real power in in knowledge and the ability to convey that knowledge. Always have three more answers than the person has questions, but that is my opinion.
    Gary my entire point was to give a reason rather than code because I have noticed many inspectors seem to feel being I C C certified or what ever automatically means something past being a parrot.My reply was always give areal world reason rather than spew out section P3...... of sub section 222 published May 10 2006 .Garry you need to learn to read people as the Agent in this case was no doubt being a di-k and I hate seeing trained dogs.

    One can spew philosophy all day but at some point you need to grow some.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Bob, in principle I would agree that spewing code is not advisable. When you start where does it end, at least in the report. Explaining a question is something different.

    There are many HIs that say things that are flat out wrong. They may have developed their own reasoning that is based on the wrong facts. Just because an HI says something does not make it correct.

    In mike's case and many others the question about a statement made by an HI is about understanding the reasoning and supportive facts for that statement. If the HI can not clearly and succinctly explain the reasoning behind his statement then he has no valid reason to make that statement.

    As in math a proof is asked to demonstrate the accuracy of an equation. It is not a challenge of ego or position, it is a request to demonstrate validity.

    Bob, in your post I sense that you feel that being questioned is a power/ego positioning issue when you say "Why respond and give the guy power over you ?". You might think about approaching being questioned as an opportunity to educate and inform. Thus you elevate your self in the questioner eyes and maybe make a new best friend, hopefully at least in a business sense. Doing so not in an arrogant condescending tone and demeanor, but in a positive non threatening manor. If you approach it as adversarial that is all it will ever be.

    The real power in in knowledge and the ability to convey that knowledge. Always have three more answers than the person has questions, but that is my opinion.
    Gary my entire point was to give a reason rather than code because I have noticed many inspectors seem to feel being I C C certified or what ever automatically means something past being a parrot.My reply was always give areal world reason rather than spew out section P3...... of sub section 222 published May 10 2006 .Garry you need to learn to read people as the Agent in this case was no doubt being a di-k and I hate seeing trained dogs.

    One can spew philosophy all day but at some point you need to grow some.

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Bob,

    Is there anything 'wrong' with providing the reason AND the code?

    Mike may well have known 'the reason' ... but also wanted the code.

    As Garry said, knowledge is where it is at, and code expands that knowledge.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Bob, in principle I would agree that spewing code is not advisable. When you start where does it end, at least in the report.
    I feel code can be beneficial when combined with a solid succinct narrative.
    In sanitary drainage, drainage fittings shall have a smooth inner surface. Adding to that, Although we are not authorities having jurisdiction there are code provisions that explain, Drainage fittings shall have a smooth interior waterway of the same diameter as the piping served.
    I understand what yourself and Condo Bob Elliott are saying but I feel that if you feel comfortable expanding a narrative do so, and yes with caution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    The real power in in knowledge and the ability to convey that knowledge. Always have three more answers than the person has questions, but that is my opinion.
    Your opinion should be well noted.
    Garry, very helpful advice.
    I do not know if you play mature card or board games but a successful strategy is having three more moves and answers in advance.
    Thanks!

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Bob,

    Is there anything 'wrong' with providing the reason AND the code?

    Mike may well have known 'the reason' ... but also wanted the code.

    As Garry said, knowledge is where it is at, and code expands that knowledge.
    I concur, and will humbly add, "The Psychedelic Shack is where it is at as well.


    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    ...my entire point was to give a reason rather than code ..........................always give areal world reason ..................read people as the Agent in this case ........

    One can spew philosophy all day but ...........

    I agree to provide reason rather than code. Many HIs technically can not hold them selves up as being an expert (certified) in code. Even if an expert it is not necessary to quote chapter and verse as part of a report. But, as a technical expert or not the HI needs to be able to "proof" their assertions.

    In the OP it is possible to infer many different ways that the Agent posed their question. I've heard it probably as many ways as it can be said. My response would always be the same and in the the same frame of mind, no mater who or how it was asked. Maybe it is life experience, philosophy or gamesmanship. That I play the game my way and will not be controlled by someone else. I have had people stand in front of me and rant and rave trying to gen up an confrontation or cause me to alter my position. I have found that you can exact an emotional toll on their part by not being a party to their confrontational approach. The less emotion and attitude that you provide them actually increases their aggravation and frustration which I typically find amusing. I would much rather expend emotional energy in more personally profitable areas rather than waste it elsewhere.

    So if an Agent asks ( in a argumentative,condescending tone) what backs up/supports your reasoning/statement, is the fact basis any different. No. Agents like most people in sales just want to make the sale and don't like perceived waves in the water with a bad wind. Most just love clear flat sailing and staying on the rhumb line.

    When you take the time to turn them into a more knowledgeable person they will loose the attitude, if any, and develop a better understand of their profession. So the next time they can explain to the buyer or seller and look like an experienced and knowledgeable smarty pants. not to mention other Agents. Which builds up their ego and self esteem. That in turn will make them a pleasure to work with in the future.


    I have the ability to, if the situation warrants, rip someone a new one by marginalizing their position, degrading their ego, creating a position of dominance and basically putting the fear of God in them. Something like going on the war path. Not a pretty sight. Way more than guided compliance. Its not about how big your stick is, it's about how you use it.

    Bob et al.
    Next time you have an Agent take you to task over something you have reported, try making it a teachable moment and demonstrate your dominance of the topic, rather than the dominance of the person, you might find that you will be the dominant figure in both areas. All without getting your blood pressure raised one point.

    In retrospect this all may be a bit to philosophical and wordy for many to have read through. Only a bit sorry in that I possibly could have condensed it down to 10 words or less for those that read this on their phone in a small format.

    .... If history could repeat itself.
    When I was in college I had an exam that consisted of one question. Some in the class used three blue books and took 2 hours trying to answer the question. I spent 30 min thinking and then correctly answered in one sentence. Just wish I could do that all of the time. Well, I would love to do it here at least one.


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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Post mortem,

    These are one of those things that should not become a deal breaker. In my view its not a big deal, fixable, don't sweat the small stuff. Carry on.

    Heck even Mike Holmes never quotes code! And there is a reason, besides being a TV personality. He's not qualified.


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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Heck even Mike Holmes never quotes code! And there is a reason, besides being a TV personality. He's not qualified.
    Based on some of the things I've seen him do on the couple of times I watched parts of his shows - you are right ... "He's not qualified." ... but I am sure he does not care as long as those checks keep being deposited to his bank account.

    Fame and Fortune - I have neither and am not looking for either ... okay ... so "fortune" would not be such a bad thing to have ... ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Big Mike is qualified to do what he does best, which is provide material for TV, and to profit from it.
    He could insert code into the TV program if he wanted to, but that is boring to most people. Better go to a commercial break.

    He has also been quite generous, relatively speaking, with his time and money such as when disaster stuck the southern US. Hopefully this is a trend that continues for the people who have been burned out of their houses in Fort Mac, Alberta, wildfires out of control.

    Disasters where people lose their homes make a crappy drain trap look like a bit of a joke, don't it? I would have said something like "This drain isn't leaking, but it is going to clog up with hair and gunk about once a month, "

    For the agent, "It is in Part 9 in the Plumbing section." In the Canadian book, everything residential is "Part 9".

    Last edited by John Kogel; 05-05-2016 at 06:30 PM.
    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

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    Default Re: flexible drain line under bath sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    For the agent, "It is in Part 9 in the Plumbing section." In the Canadian book, everything residential is "Part 9".


    Now that is a code reference everyone should be able to use ... down here, that would be "it's in the IRC", or for Florida, 'it's in the Florida Building Code Residential" ... sadly, that does not have the same 'being specific' ring to it as "it is in Part 9" has.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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