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  1. #1
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    Default Gray piping for well water supply

    Have never seen this type of installation Is it correct?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Longs like PVC schedule 80 electrical conduit.
    The whole thing is a mess....

    Dom.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    I just saw grey schedule 40 pipe last week. It was printed on the pipe.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Grey electrical conduit is not pressure rated.

    I have seen grey pressure rated pipe.

    You would need to read what is on the pipe.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Could be gray pipe nipples, typically used for sprinkler risers, with the threads cut off to make slip joints.

    Last edited by Ian Page; 06-27-2016 at 07:33 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    I would recommend adding some filtration on the water system and they could choose a listed water pipe then if the labeling proves that pipe to be wrong. 10 feet of questionable pipe - replace it.

    A water alarm on the floor anytime you see a water system like that, which appears to be in a renovated basement with a bedroom beside it. The cheap buzzers can be had for $20 or so. The $100 model can call out to your cellphone.


    Last edited by John Kogel; 07-02-2016 at 10:39 PM.
    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Not sure about the gray, but that install looks great compared to the slop that I see when I get a well system (which is not very often).

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Short plumbing run to be replaced if the material is not compliant.
    A bonding strap is required.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    A bonding strap is required.
    Maybe ... maybe not ...

    Depends ... the interior metal water piping may be bonded outside the view in the photo; the tank may be fed by metal piping and would thus be bonded back to the pump which is (hopefully anyway) grounded; if the piping to the tank is plastic piping ... there is no need to bond the tank to anything.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    PVC piping, regardless of color, used for potable water as water service pipe, would need to be marked as meeting the following:
    - From (from the row for "PVC" pipe):
    - - Table P2905.4 Water Service Pipe
    - - - ASTM D 1785; ASTM D 2241; ASTM D 2672; CSA B137.3.

    Keeping in mind, of course, the limitations for use of "water service pipe" - so here is the definition for "water service pipe":
    - From the definitions: (underlining is mine)
    - - Water Service Pipe. The outside pipe from the water main or other source of potable water supply to the water distribution system inside the building, terminating at the service valve.

    Water service pipe is 'outside' the building - basically PVC is not permitted for pressurized use 'inside' the building.

    That would also apply to the fittings - those fittings are 'white' and may not be compatible with the gray pipe, and possibly may be used for "water service pipe" 'outside' the building.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Here is a little something to add to the mix. Not only is schedule 40 pipe available in grey WITHOUT markings, but it comes in a variety of colors as well. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/grey-s...b-full-details


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    PVC piping, regardless of color, used for potable water as water service pipe, would need to be marked as meeting the following:
    - From (from the row for "PVC" pipe):
    - - Table P2905.4 Water Service Pipe
    - - - ASTM D 1785; ASTM D 2241; ASTM D 2672; CSA B137.3.

    Keeping in mind, of course, the limitations for use of "water service pipe" - so here is the definition for "water service pipe":
    - From the definitions: (underlining is mine)
    - - Water Service Pipe. The outside pipe from the water main or other source of potable water supply to the water distribution system inside the building, terminating at the service valve.

    Water service pipe is 'outside' the building - basically PVC is not permitted for pressurized use 'inside' the building.

    That would also apply to the fittings - those fittings are 'white' and may not be compatible with the gray pipe, and possibly may be used for "water service pipe" 'outside' the building.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    Here is a little something to add to the mix. Not only is schedule 40 pipe available in grey WITHOUT markings, but it comes in a variety of colors as well. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/grey-s...b-full-details
    If it's not marked as meeting the required standards, it should be removed as it is not approved for potable water use.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    If it's not marked as meeting the required standards, it should be removed as it is not approved for potable water use.
    I confess I have not read the ASTM Standards. Is there a requirement that the pipes must be labeled? I don't recall see labels on galvanized pipe before, but its been a very long time since I bought any.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    I confess I have not read the ASTM Standards. Is there a requirement that the pipes must be labeled? I don't recall see labels on galvanized pipe before, but its been a very long time since I bought any.
    P2906.4 Water service pipe.
    Water service pipe shall conform to NSF 61 and shall conform to one of the standards indicated in Table P2906.4 ....


    Galvanized ASTM A 53


    P2906.5 Water distribution pipe.
    Water-distribution piping within dwelling untis shall conform to NSF 61 and shall conform to one of the standards indicated in Table P2906.5 ....

    If the piping is not marked ... how do you, or a contractor, or an inspector for the AHJ know that it is suitable for potable water use? Could be gas piping, or electrical rigid conduit, or ???

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    P2906.4 Water service pipe.
    Water service pipe shall conform to NSF 61 and shall conform to one of the standards indicated in Table P2906.4 ....


    Galvanized ASTM A 53


    P2906.5 Water distribution pipe.
    Water-distribution piping within dwelling untis shall conform to NSF 61 and shall conform to one of the standards indicated in Table P2906.5 ....

    If the piping is not marked ... how do you, or a contractor, or an inspector for the AHJ know that it is suitable for potable water use? Could be gas piping, or electrical rigid conduit, or ???
    My question wasn't how do you identify it, thats an obvious issue when there isn't a label. My question was: Is there a requirement that the pipes must be labeled?
    If you don't know, that's OK. Maybe someone here can answer my question.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    My question wasn't how do you identify it, thats an obvious issue when there isn't a label. My question was: Is there a requirement that the pipes must be labeled?
    If you don't know, that's OK. Maybe someone here can answer my question.
    I understood what your question was, and I thought you would understand my answer.

    Not everything required by the code is specifically stated in the code, if it was, the code would be larger than the Encyclopedia Britannica.

    When the code specifies a 16 common nail, does the code require the nail to be labeled? No, the code does not specifically state that each nail must be labeled or marked, but one needs to be able to identify the nail when using it, and everyone using a 16 d common nails should be able to identify it based on its size and shape - you agree?

    When installing a piece of pipe, which could be of multiple types for different uses, how are you going to identify what use each piece is made for, certainly not based on its size or shape? With each piece being labeled or marked is how one would be able to separate a pipe made for gas from a pipe made for water from a pipe made for use as electrical conduit.

    Here is a question for you: P2906.5 also states "Hot-water-distribution pipe and tubing shall have a pressure rating of not less than 100 psi at 180ºF (689 kPa at 82ºC)." - How would you know the pipe is rated for that if it was not labeled or marked?

    I will also look up the ASTM standards and let you know what they state and up date this - my ASTM stuff is on another computer which I will boot up and look for your "specifically stated" implication question.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    I thought you could answer my question without going off on a tangent.

    To illustrate the reason behind my question was finding schedule 40 pipe offered in different colors. The distributor says it is Schedule 40 pVC, and I assume that they somehow have documentation that can prove it. (And I'm not sure it is NOT labeled).
    However, what got me thinking about it is galvanized pipe. I have not seen labels on the pipe of fittings, yet we know its approved for water.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    From ASTM A 53:
    - 21. Product Marking - - 21.1 Except as allowed by 21.5 and 21.6, each length of pipe shall be legibly marked in the following sequence to show:
    - - - 21.1.1 Manufacturer’s name or mark,
    - - - 21.1.2 Specification number (year-date not required),
    NOTE 9—Pipe that complies with multiple compatible specifications may be marked with the appropriate designation for each specification.
    - - - 21.1.3 Size (NPS and weight class, schedule number, or specified wall thickness; or specified outside diameter and specified wall thickness),
    - - - 21.1.4 Grade (A or B),
    - - - 21.1.5 Type of pipe (F, E, or S),
    - - - 21.1.6 Test pressure, seamless pipe only (if applicable, in accordance with Table 4),
    - - - 21.1.7 Nondestructive electric test, seamless pipe only (if applicable, in accordance with Table 4),
    - - 21.2 Unless another marking format is specified in the purchase order, length shall be marked in feet and tenths of a foot, or metres to two decimal places, dependent upon the units to which the pipe was ordered. The location of such marking shall be at the option of the manufacturer.
    - - 21.3 Heat number, lot number, run number, or a combination thereof shall be marked at the option of the manufacturer, unless specific marking is specified in the purchase order. The location of such marking shall be at the option of the manufacturer.
    - - 21.4 Any additional information desired by the manufacturer or specified in the purchase order.
    - - 21.5 For pipe NPS 11/2 [DN 40] and smaller that is bundled, it shall be permissible to mark the required information on a tag securely attached to each bundle.
    - - 21.6 If pipe sections are cut into shorter lengths by a processor for resale as pipe, the processor shall transfer the complete identification, including the name or brand of the manufacturer, to each unmarked cut length, or to metal tags securely attached to unmarked pipe bundled in accordance with the requirements of 21.5. The same material designation shall be included with the information transferred, and the processor’s name, trademark, or brand shall be added.
    - - 21.7 Bar Coding—In addition to the requirements in 21.1, 21.5, and 21.6, bar coding is acceptable as a supplementary identification method. It is recommended that bar coding be consistent with the Automotive Industry Action Group (AIAG) standard prepared by the Primary Metals Subcommittee of the AIAG Bar Code Project Team.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    I thought you could answer my question without going off on a tangent.
    I thought I did, when you indicated I needed additional information, I got it.

    To illustrate the reason behind my question was finding schedule 40 pipe offered in different colors. The distributor says it is Schedule 40 pVC, and I assume that they somehow have documentation that can prove it. (And I'm not sure it is NOT labeled).
    However, what got me thinking about it is galvanized pipe. I have not seen labels on the pipe of fittings, yet we know its approved for water.
    Stating that something is Schedule 40 PVC is meaningless to any given use without knowing what it is intended for (water, electrical, potable water, chemicals, etc).

    As an example, electrical schedule 40 is not pressure tested, its fittings are not pressure tested, the glue is not pressure tested, and, in fact, it is presumed to leak ... which is why conductors in it which are in a wet location are required to be wet location rated (the inside of the PVC is considered to be that same wet location as the outside of the PVC).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    Thanks for finally posting the ASTM Standard, that makes it fairly clear.

    Since the web site that I quickly found when I did a Google search for colored PVC appears to be a supplier for ponds, I would assume that the pipe is approved for water, and is pressure rated. They are also very clear about having no writing on the pipe. Maybe there is a different rating for construction applications that does not apply when materials are used in an industrial application, or in water features.

    However, my interest in this piping thread has reached saturation level.
    Thanks for taking the time to look the info up.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Gray piping for well water supply

    We use the IBC and for PVC it says " Where used for drinking water , the product must be certified to NSF 61

    The pipe has to be marked with ASME stanards , NSF 61 , for just a few and is labled every 3 feet.

    Chances are it will and is working fine , but giving it the seal of approval takes everyone else off the hook.


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