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  1. #66
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    Feb 2008
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    I would rather know its leaking out than sight unseen and rotting out the floor.

    OREP Home Inspector E&O Insurance
    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  2. #67
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    I would rather know its leaking out than sight unseen and rotting out the floor.
    More personal opinions ... and this thread is full of personal opinions saying the same thing, yet those same people who as discounting the code will often times try to back up what they say and call out by wanting code sections.

    Either you want the code or you don't ... as soon as you start to pick and choose and not address some things "because you think you know better" ... you are no better than the building official who picks and chooses things that they think they know better and then you see and complain that it should not have been approved.

    No more belly-aching about wanting code to support something you think is wrong when someone else thought it was good enough ... it works both ways.

    This is going to be great - I can now close my code books and not have to worry about any code questions on this site, because we all "know our way is better and code does not apply when we don't want it too".



    I can go with that ... DANG! ... and I just replied to a question about code and attic separation - guess I need to go back and delete my response as I can now ignore code questions.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #68
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    Feb 2008
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Thats fine, but you haven't explained why you would and the code would want a leak to go unseen. Codes are not always right, and as we both know some codes are deleted and replaced or updated over time.

    As to sewage seeping out and creating health concerns the same could be said for concealed dangers. Besides, thats why we have domestic diva's - to clean up after the male species. Its just good house keeping. Not any worst than a child not making to the toilet and the resultant mess down the hallway...

    No big deal, in the scheme of inspecting this is not going to be a deal breaker, and I know its not something I call out. However I do check for loose toilets mounts.

    Carry on.

    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  4. #69
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Thats fine, but you haven't explained why you would and the code would want a leak to go unseen.

    Again, lack of understanding the code.

    No one said the code "would want a leak to go unseen" - you seem to be ignoring the fact that by the time the leak was visible that the damage to the structure/floor has already been done/has been started.

    The code is addressing the sanitary aspect of having sewage leaking into the living space, along with the sewer gas leaking into the living space.

    That's okay, everyone here seems to know more than the code, so be it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Bennett (Denver metro), Colorado
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    The code is addressing the sanitary aspect of having sewage leaking into the living space, along with the sewer gas leaking into the living space.
    I didn't know that the code addresses why. Reasons are offered by observers, but have any of the actual code writers told us what problem they are addressing with this requirement.

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  6. #71
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    Caledon, Ontario
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Jerry

    If I follow your logic its irrelevant if the leak has already caused damage, the fact remains its likely going to be found sooner with a gap than without. We don't know if the leak has yet caused damage, that would all depend on how soon the effects of leakage become apparent.

    Now that we agree to disagree..

    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  7. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
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    4,423

    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    I dug up some pics for y'all. A toilet was leaking under the vinyl. Vinyl was lapped against the toilet base. So nobody noticed until the baseboard trim started to stink.

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    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  8. #73
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    I think you guys are on to something that the code writers didn't consider: weep holes in things which keep water back so leaks can be seen before much damage can be done.

    As such, weep holes need to be added to the following"
    - roofs so roof leaks can be seen in the living spaces before there is damage to the roof sheathing
    - shower stalls so shower pan leaks can be seen before there is damage to the drywall or wall framing
    - under tubs so leaks can be seen before there is damage to the subfloor
    - plumbing piping so leaks can be seen before there is damage to other components of the structure
    - condensate lines so leaks can be seen before ...

    Yeppers, you guys are really onto something with those weep holes ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #74
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    I weep for you.

    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  10. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Wrong as there is no way to do an Inspection to Code. If you tell me you do Inspection to Code you are full of you know what.
    There is no way I would ever have respect for the AHJ not here nor ever.
    As for this small issue than yes I would rather listen to the wisdom of the past and protect my Client from the failure of the wax ring than a bloody overflow of a toilet.
    I imagine given enough time that will be stricken from the new code but will continue to point this out to my Clients and wait for the AHJ debate to go into the crap hole.
    I would rather find a person electrocuted from a failed device than blindly rely on the unknown workings of a possibly defective GFI and thinking I have an don't have an issue. I want to know when there is a problem.

    Code inspectors inspect to code everyday. Why would it be so hard for you to acknowledge their expertise or the knowledge of the consensus code making panels?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Wrong as there is no way to do an Inspection to Code. If you tell me you do Inspection to Code you are full of you know what.
    There is no way I would ever have respect for the AHJ not here nor ever.
    As for this small issue than yes I would rather listen to the wisdom of the past and protect my Client from the failure of the wax ring than a bloody overflow of a toilet.
    I imagine given enough time that will be stricken from the new code but will continue to point this out to my Clients and wait for the AHJ debate to go into the crap hole.
    I would rather find a person electrocuted from a failed device than blindly rely on the unknown workings of a possibly defective GFI and thinking I have an don't have an issue. I want to know when there is a problem.

    Code inspectors inspect to code everyday. Why would it be so hard for you to acknowledge their expertise or the knowledge of the consensus code making panels?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Wrong as there is no way to do an Inspection to Code. If you tell me you do Inspection to Code you are full of you know what.
    There is no way I would ever have respect for the AHJ not here nor ever.
    As for this small issue than yes I would rather listen to the wisdom of the past and protect my Client from the failure of the wax ring than a bloody overflow of a toilet.
    I imagine given enough time that will be stricken from the new code but will continue to point this out to my Clients and wait for the AHJ debate to go into the crap hole.
    I would rather find a person electrocuted from a failed device than blindly rely on the unknown workings of a possibly defective GFI and thinking I have an don't have an issue. I want to know when there is a problem.

    Code inspectors inspect to code everyday. Why would it be so hard for you to acknowledge their expertise or the knowledge of the consensus code making panels?

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  11. #76
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Code officials are not trained by maximum training but minimum. That is just one part of the problem.
    Kevin,

    That just plain does not make sense ... there is no "maximum" to which anyone can be trained ... there is ALWAYS a "better way" to do something more safely ... albeit most of the time that many mean "much much more costly", but the end result is that once it is done that way ... there is still a "better way" to do it more safely ... like trying to find the end of a mobius strip ... ain't gonna happen.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #77
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    If you talk to Code officials you will find on occasion they don't like passing certain things also.
    Being as that is what I do now ... there are things which *I* "don't like", but ... *I* (nor you) wrote the code.

    The code is a consensus document between a lot of smart people where the goal is to arrive at a MINIMUM standard, and that is what they do.

    And, being as I am a code official and inspect to codes ... it does not matter what *I* like or do not like, if it meets the code then it meets the code.

    It does not matter what *you* like or do not like either, you can say "that this should be changed" until you are red in the face ... it simply does not matter. That is, I believe, what Jim Port was pointing out to you - that it does not matter what *YOU* like or do not like, as a home inspector you cannot "require" ANYTHING to be done or changed. All you can do is "recommend" to your clients to the effect of "You know, I don't like this, and I would not have done it this way, and I think it should be done this other way, etc." ... and if you ever get sued by a seller for killing their deal, you will most assuredly lose and possibly have to buy their house - I sure hope you have a lot of money in the bank when you write reports like that because there are people like Scott P and myself who can easily profit from your arrogance and help take you to the cleaners and the poor house.

    You really do not seem to use much common sense (which only confirms what they say today "common sense is all too uncommon nowadays") ... you surely are lacking in "common sense" from your posts on this an other subjects. Not poking you in the eye or anything, just pointing out what you are showing us ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #78
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    I never tell my Client it has to be done and never act in such a way that you think.
    It's not the way I am thinking you act ...

    (bold is mine)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    If it is not then I make comments that this should be changed.
    ... It's the way you've been saying you act.

    You really do need to get - and keep - your story here straight, otherwise your 'believability' level drops.

    Kind of like talking with someone and they say "Well, to be honest with you ... " "To tell you the truth ... " "To be straight with you ... "

    WTH??? You mean you have not been honest with me, not been truthful about everything you've already said so far, been leading the discussion in a false direction??? Their 'believeability' level just dropped like a rock.

    I was on the stand testifying once and the opposing attorney said "I want you to be honest with me now ... " My response was "Weren't you standing there when I swore to tell the truth, or was that an impostor taking your place?" The attorney stood there stunned, didn't know what to say, went back to his seat, finally said "No more questions."

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 10-13-2014 at 02:51 PM. Reason: added last part
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #79
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    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    At least don't take the literal phrase out of context ...
    I didn't take it out of context, I took it in the context in which you used it.

    ... and never try ever to think you know someone from the posting on a MB.
    So ... you are now saying that you are being honest with us but before you were not being so honest with us?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #80

    Default Re: IRC requires toilet be caulked to floor?

    Wow

    Has this gone off track??

    Jerry and Kevin, you need to take it outside!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wow

    Has this gone off track??

    Jerry and Kevin, you need to take it outside!

    Jeff Zehnder - Home Inspector, Raleigh, NC
    http://www.jjeffzehnder.com/
    http://carolinahomeinspections.com/

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