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  1. #1
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    Default 2006 IRC and IPC code trick (not really, but it may seem that way)

    From the 2006 IRC. (bold is mine)
    - P2801.5 Required pan.
    Where water heaters or hot water storage tanks are installed in locations where leakage of the tanks or connections will cause damage, the tank or water heater shall be installed in a galvanized steel pan having a minimum thickness of 24 gage (0.016 inch) (0.4 mm) or other pans for such use. Listed pans shall comply with CSA LC3.

    - - P2801.5.1 Pan size and drain.
    The pan shall be not less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) deep and shall be of sufficient size and shape to receive all dripping or condensate from the tank or water heater. The pan shall be drained by an indirect waste pipe having a minimum diameter of 3/4 inch (19 mm). Piping for safety pan drains shall be of those materials listed in Table P2904.5.

    - P2904.5 Water-distribution pipe.
    Water-distribution piping within dwelling units shall conform to NSF 61 and shall conform to one of the standards listed in Table P2904.5. All hot-water-distribution pipe and tubing shall have a minimum pressure rating of 100 psi at 180°F (689 kPa at 82°C).


    One type of pipe *NOT* included in Table 2904.5 is *PVC*.

    The drain pipe from water heater drain pans is no longer allowed to be PVC (except, of course, in Florida, where water cools off immediately after exiting the relief valve and is suitable for bathing in right then and there ).

    Similar Threads:
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: 2006 IRC and IPC code trick (not really, but it may seem that way)

    Jerry
    I don"t have the IRC on my home computer, could you post the tables?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 2006 IRC and IPC code trick (not really, but it may seem that way)

    Attached.

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    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: 2006 IRC and IPC code trick (not really, but it may seem that way)

    Speaking of new:
    California Plumbing Code 2007: Effective Jan. 1, 2008.
    Water Heater PT Valves:
    Relief valve drains shall not terminate in a building’s crawl space. No part of such drainpipe shall be trapped or subject to freezing. The terminal end of the drainpipe shall not be threaded. (highlighted part by me is new)

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 2006 IRC and IPC code trick (not really, but it may seem that way)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Speaking of new:
    California Plumbing Code 2007: Effective Jan. 1, 2008.
    Water Heater PT Valves:
    Relief valve drains shall not terminate in a building’s crawl space. No part of such drainpipe shall be trapped or subject to freezing. The terminal end of the drainpipe shall not be threaded. (highlighted part by me is new)
    Let me guess.... finally a code to protect the home inspector while crawling under the house? I know, probably not.... but, inquiring minds want to know.... Any idea of the reason behind this one?

    I'll guess it has something to do with making sure the end stays unobstructed... that's a total guess though. Or, maybe so one could identify a leaking valve more readily but it seems most codes don't really have convenience in mind.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: 2006 IRC and IPC code trick (not really, but it may seem that way)

    Matt
    I think it has more to do with water collecting in the crawlspace, it would attract insects and vermin, as well as contribute to rot and mold.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 2006 IRC and IPC code trick (not really, but it may seem that way)

    JP
    I could be a little dense, but I don't understand what your are getting at. From the title it sounds like there is an apparent contradiction, but what.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 2006 IRC and IPC code trick (not really, but it may seem that way)

    Rick,

    The code changes excluded the use of PVC for drain pans and the 2006 reference now mandates CPVC for drain pans which are not expected to have high temp water in them anyhow.

    The Dec 2007 Building Safety Journal by ICC had a short blurb on this in the "Significant Changes To The 2006 I-Codes" section. It was explained that this occurred because, in a nutshell, the original specification was put in the wrong code section of the IPC. When they moved it to the "correct" code section it referenced the new table which excludes the use of PVC.

    In the same little blurb they did indicate that this was a "controversial issue and must be resolved during the structure's design". There was also additional wording that indicated they (ICC) are laying it back on the AHJ and installers to decide if PVC on a drain pan is acceptable.

    That is the what I got from that "...Journal" blurb. Any other interpretations out there??


  9. #9
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    Default Re: 2006 IRC and IPC code trick (not really, but it may seem that way)

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmanuelScanlan View Post
    The code changes excluded the use of PVC for drain pans and the 2006 reference now mandates CPVC for drain pans
    Not 'the pan', the "drain line".

    The pans already have to be metal ... 'or other approved material', which would include testing with hot water.

    Using PVC for the drain lines from the pan to carry 'still hot water' is outside the temperature range of PVC.

    The drain pan drain line does not need to be CPVC, it can be any material in the table I posted.

    The Dec 2007 Building Safety Journal by ICC had a short blurb on this in the "Significant Changes To The 2006 I-Codes" section. It was explained that this occurred because, in a nutshell, the original specification was put in the wrong code section of the IPC. When they moved it to the "correct" code section it referenced the new table which excludes the use of PVC.
    Close.

    It was originally put in the T&P safety relief valve discharge section in 2003: (bold and underlining are mine)
    - 504.6 Relief outlet waste.
    - - 504.6.1 Discharge.
    - - 504.6.2 Materials. Relief valve discharge piping shall be of those materials listed in Section 605.5 or shall be tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1. Piping from safety pan drains shall be of those materials listed in Table 605.4.

    You will notice that the drain pan drain pipe is under the T&P valve discharge line section, HOWEVER, the same Table was referenced - Table 605.4 (referring to the IPC here).

    When they relocated the reference for drain pan drain line to the drain pan section ... the referenced table *did not change* - Table 605.4.

    The reason for the change, which is rather obvious, is that when you are looking up the requirements for the drain pan drain line, you look under the drain pan section, not the T&P section. In that sense, nothing really changed ... other than moving it to where people were looking for it. Which now makes PVC a not-suitable-for-drain-pan-drain-use pipe (actually was this way in 2003, just no one knew it because it was in the wrong section).

    In the same little blurb they did indicate that this was a "controversial issue and must be resolved during the structure's design".
    Actually, this is at the drawing as: A. The pan is installed to reduce structural damage from a water heater leak. Most code officials share the opinion that the pan is not capable of removing the pressurized discharge of a relief valve.; and, B. Drain materials shall be approved water distribution pipe, which would NOT include PVC. (The "NOT" is in bold.)

    Then it says: Note: Items A and B are controversial issues and must be resolved during the structure's design.

    This is because, while "Most code officials" feel that way, not all do, nor do all architects and designers, thus, however, it is a code enforceable (mandated enforcement) item.

    There was also additional wording that indicated they (ICC) are laying it back on the AHJ and installers to decide if PVC on a drain pan is acceptable.
    Sort of, the drain pan is spelled out in the code as:

    - 504.7 Required pan. Where water heaters or hot water storage tanks are installed in locations where leakage of the tanks or connections will cause damage, the tank or water heater shall be installed in a galvanized steel pan having a minimum thickness of 24 gage, or other pans approved for such use.

    APPROVED. Acceptable to the code official or other authority having jurisdiction.

    "Could" the AHJ approve a PVC drain pan? I guess, but all of the plastic drain pans I've seen were not PVC, they were ABS (or something else, just pretty sure they were not PVC).

    "Could" the AHJ approved a PVC drain pan drain line? No, that is against code as it is spelled out what the code allows.

    The main thing I got from that article was: 'Oops! We had it in the wrong section and no one saw it there.'

    As far as the referenced table goes - nothing changed.

    As far as the ICC code trick goes, few knew it was there, but now it is where all should see it, and, thus, PVC is no longer allowed for the drain pan drain piping.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 2006 IRC and IPC code trick (not really, but it may seem that way)

    There are some differences between the 2006 IRC Plumbing Section and the 2007 California Plumbing Code, which is based on the 2006 Uniform Plumbing Code. Sample: Water Heater’s PTRV; CPC 508.5 - Discharge from a relief valve into a water heater pan shall be prohibited. Think that’s a good rule and would like to see the IRC so adopt. On the other hand, I think Jerry P enumerated them; the IRC has a 13 item list on PTRV piping that CA should adopt. My question; will I live long enough to see one national code?

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

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