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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    464

    Default I don't see a lot of these.

    I saw this on a pair of water heaters today. Powered water heater flue vent. A room up above that prevented a natural draft, so the flues were routed directly horizontal exiting through a wall to the exterior. This device on the bottom of the heater I guess is some cirulcation device ? Anybody know ?

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
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    4,112

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    SELECT
    POWER VENT

    GAS
    Permits combined horizontal and vertical vent runs up to 80 feet using
    Schedule 40 PVC, CPVC or ABS pipe

    State Industries | Literature | Catalogs

    Gene, take a look at this from the State website.


    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  3. #3
    Mark c Jones's Avatar
    Mark c Jones Guest

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    The drains on the TPR valves are wrong.

    Mark

    Allmark Home Inspections Inc.
    Allmark Home Inspections Illinois


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers, FL
    Posts
    363

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    Why wrong Mark. Looks like CVPV.

    Paul Kondzich
    Ft. Myers, FL.

  5. #5
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    I believe that the relief valve drain lines need to discharge through an air-gap when the discharge outlet is in a different room from the water heater. Section P2803.6.1(2) in the 2006 IRC Residential Code


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Garland, TX
    Posts
    605

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    Is this discharge acceptable to y'all?
    It's common practice for the TPR drains to run through walls from our attics and garages to the exterior as depicted.

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    5,829

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    I believe that the relief valve drain lines need to discharge through an air-gap when the discharge outlet is in a different room from the water heater. Section P2803.6.1(2) in the 2006 IRC Residential Code
    That cite has to do with it terminating into an indirect waste connection. Without looking up the details, I belive Watts allows for no more than 4- 90 degree elbows and no more than a 30' run with a Watts 210 valve.

    The problem I see with that setup are the CPVC connections to the copper. It sure does look like it is connected to a threaded end on the copper pipe. So if it is, all a handy dandy person would need to do is to remove the CPVC line and thread on a valve to the end of the copper and they would have instant hot water when the TPRV is opened!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    25,308

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Without looking up the details, I belive Watts allows for no more than 4- 90 degree elbows and no more than a 30' run ...

    Used to be that way for all T&P valves, for decades, then, 2003 I think, they changed to 'must terminate within the same room or space into', then the option given.

    Before 2003 in the ICC codes, maximum 4 elbows (did not specify 90 degree) and maximum 30 feet of run - based on Watts installation instructions and what was written on every tag on every T&P valve.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers, FL
    Posts
    363

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    No references here just a question. I did read something about an air gap. Unless that airgap was at the last 6" of the pipe would not not defeat the purpose of the TPRV pipe discharging within 6" of the floor. Or is that now why that is not required???

    Paul Kondzich
    Ft. Myers, FL.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    Paul,

    The codes used to say that the discharge end had to be within 6" of the floor, ground, etc. This was for safety reasons.

    Watts used to say that the discharge end should have at least 6" between the end and the floor, ground, etc. This was to make sure that there was nothing which would cause a back pressure when the T&P was releasing, Watts wanted the T&P to release to "atmosphere" (atmospheric pressure only).

    Thus, the old rule was 6" (no tolerance) as the codes wanted *within 6"* and Watts wanted *at least 6"*.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    High Point, NC
    Posts
    97

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    I see a lot of TPR valve extension tubes discharging so close to the floor that a spray of the pressurized hot water is most likely.
    I see to remember that the extension tube was to be between 6" & 24" off the floor.
    Am I wrong?


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Posts
    117

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    There does not appear to be a recirc line nor pump in the photos, however the you will want to make sure that the plastic vents are not PLEXVENT types which were recalleds several years back (due to cracking).

    RJDalga
    http://homeanalysts.com
    Kalamazoo, MI

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Oak Park, IL
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    Just a dumb observation but, why does it appear there is a Christmas wreath hanging in the same room as two gas appliances?

    Rick Sabatino
    Sabatino Consulting, Inc.
    Oak Park, IL

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    One picture shows water flowing from the TPR outlet at the exterior. Do you activate these during inspections? Just my $0.02, but I think you are asking for trouble by activating these. We are not "required" to do so here.

    Thanks,
    -Dave

    Dave Hill
    Buyers & Sellers Property Inspections LLC
    WWW.BuyersSellersPi.Com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    gainesville fl
    Posts
    122

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    I think the Texas guys are required to.


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Charlotte NC
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    2,297

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    The problem I see with that setup are the CPVC connections to the copper. It sure does look like it is connected to a threaded end on the copper pipe. So if it is, all a handy dandy person would need to do is to remove the CPVC line and thread on a valve to the end of the copper and they would have instant hot water when the TPRV is opened!
    Scott, isn't the T&P valve threaded? Handy dandy could do the same there.


  17. #17
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
    Richard Rushing Guest

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce m graham III View Post
    I think the Texas guys are required to.
    Yep, we do...

    RULE 535.229
    Standards of Practice: Inspection Guidelines for Mechanical Systems: Appliances, Cooling Systems, Heating Systems, Ducts, Vents and Flues, and Plumbing Systems

    (k) Water heaters. The inspector shall:
    (1) report the energy source;

    (2) inspect the unit and report as in need of repair fittings that leak or are corroded;

    (3) report as in need of repair temperature and pressure relief valve piping that lacks gravity drainage, is improperly sized (no smaller than the outlet fittings), has deficiencies in material, or lacks a correct termination;

    (4) report as in need of repair a temperature and pressure relief valve that does not operate when the valve is of an operable type and operation will not cause damage to persons or property as reasonably determined by the inspector (for example, it would be reasonable not to operate the valve if there is improper or undetermined termination of the drain pipe, a corroded or damaged valve, improper installation of valve or drain pipe, the drain pipe is of inappropriate material or there is no water supply cut-off valve at the unit);

    (5) report as in need of repair any broken or missing parts, covers or controls;

    (6) report as in need of repair deficiencies in the burner, flame and burner compartment, the operation of heating elements and the condition of wiring;

    (7) report as in need of repair deficiencies in materials used for the gas branch line and the connection to the appliance, the absence of a gas shut-off valve, or a valve that is not properly located, is inaccessible, or leaks;

    (8) if applicable, report as in need of repair deficiencies in the vent pipe, draft diverter, draft hood and their condition, draft, proximity to combustibles and vent termination point, observing for adequate combustion and draft air;

    (9) report as in need of repair the lack of a safety pan and drain (including the termination of the drain line) when applicable;

    (10) report as in need of repair an unsafe location or installation; and

    (11) inspect garage units or units which are located in rooms or enclosures opening into a garage and report as in need of repair the following:
    (A) a lack of protection for physical damage to the unit; and
    (B) burners, burner ignition devices or heating elements, switches or thermostats that are not a minimum of 18 inches above the lowest garage floor elevation.


    So, even if I can see the drain termination point to the exterior, I do not release TPR valves with units installed in the attic.

    Rich



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Rockwall Texas
    Posts
    4,517

    Default Re: I don't see a lot of these.

    Know where the drain line terminates before you open the T&P Valve, someone could get a soaking.

    rick

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