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  1. #1
    Jeff Eastman's Avatar
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    Default Catch pan drain termination

    Last edited by Jeff Eastman; 12-19-2007 at 02:47 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    Yes.

    From the IRC. (underlining is mine)
    - SECTION P2608
    - - MATERIALS EVALUATION AND LISTING
    - - - P2608.1 Identification.
    Each length of pipe and each pipe fitting, trap, fixture, material and device used in a plumbing system shall bear the identification of the manufacturer.

    - - - - P2608.2 Installation of materials.
    All materials used shall be installed in strict accordance with the standards under which the materials are accepted and approved. In the absence of such installation procedures, the manufacturer’s installation instructions shall be followed. Where the requirements of referenced standards or manufacturer’s installation instructions do not conform to the minimum provisions of this code, the provisions of this code shall apply.

    All manufacturer's installation instructions I have seen state that the drain pan drain is to be drain to a floor drain or to the outdoors.
    - P2801.2 Installation.
    Water heaters shall be installed in accordance with this chapter and Chapters 20 and 24.
    - SECTION M2005
    - - WATER HEATERS
    - - - M2005.1 General.
    Water heaters shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions and the requirements of this code. Water heaters installed in an attic shall conform to the requirements of Section M1305.1.3. Gas-fired water heaters shall conform to the requirements in Chapter 24. Domestic electric water heaters shall conform to UL 174 or UL 1453. Commercial electric water heaters shall conform to UL 1453. Oiled-fired water heaters shall conform to UL 732.

    - SECTION G2408 (305)
    - - INSTALLATION
    - - - G2408.1 (305.1) General.
    Equipment and appliances shall be installed as required by the terms of their approval, in accordance with the conditions of listing, the manufacturer’s instructions and this code. Manufacturers’ installation instructions shall be available on the job site at the time of inspection. Where a code provision is less restrictive than the conditions of the listing of the equipment or appliance or the manufacturer’s installation instructions, the conditions of the listing and the manufacturer’s installation instructions shall apply.
    - - - Unlisted appliances approved in accordance with Section 2404.3 shall be limited to uses recommended by the manufacturer and shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions, the provisions of this code and the requirements determined by the code official.



    Now we go back to the Plumbing part of the IRC.
    - P2801.5 Required pan.
    Where water heaters or hot water storage tanks are installed in locations where leakage of the tanks or connections will cause damage, the tank or water heater shall be installed in a galvanized steel pan having a minimum thickness of 24 gage (0.016 inch) (0.4 mm) or other pans for such use. Listed pans shall comply with CSA LC3.
    - - P2801.5.1 Pan size and drain.
    The pan shall be not less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) deep and shall be of sufficient size and shape to receive all dripping or condensate from the tank or water heater. The pan shall be drained by an indirect waste pipe having a minimum diameter of 3/4 inch (19 mm). Piping for safety pan drains shall be of those materials listed
    in Table P2904.5.

    - - P2801.5.2 Pan drain termination.
    The pan drain shall extend full-size and terminate over a suitably located indirect waste receptor or shall extend to the exterior of the building and terminate not less than 6 inches (152 mm) and not more than 24 inches (610 mm) above the adjacent ground surface.

    I suspect those references should do the trick.



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    Jeff, where is that heater located? It looks like it is not in the house and may not be required to have a pan. If there is no requirement for a pan, then the drain requirement would be superfluous.

    P2801.5 Required pan.
    Where water heaters or hot water storage tanks are installed in locations where leakage of the tanks or connections will cause damage, the tank or water heater shall be installed in a galvanized steel pan having a minimum thickness of 24 gage (0.016 inch) (0.4 mm) or other pans for such use. Listed pans shall comply with CSA LC3.

    Now, I always call out a w/h in a garage for upgrade with a pan and drain (especially if the stand is attached to the house wall), but I don't think the AHJ could require it. Nice thing about not being tied to the limits of the code, we can recommend based on common sense. Since most people store at least some items likely to be damaged by water in their garage, it just makes sense to have a drain pan and proper drain, even if the code does not require it.

    Jim


    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Eastman View Post
    - P2801.5.2 Pan drain termination.
    The pan drain shall extend full-size and terminate over a suitably located indirect waste receptor or shall extend to the exterior of the building and terminate not less than 6 inches (152 mm) and not more than 24 inches (610 mm) above the adjacent ground surface.


    Jerry, you sure this isn't the requirement for the TPR drain line?
    Yep.

    "P2801.5.2 Pan drain termination."

    Jim,

    - P2801.5 Required pan.
    Where water heaters or hot water storage tanks are installed in locations where leakage of the tanks or connections will cause damage, the tank or water heater shall be installed in a galvanized steel pan having a minimum thickness of 24 gage (0.016 inch) (0.4 mm) or other pans for such use. Listed pans shall comply with CSA LC3.

    Even in the garage, leakage WILL cause "damage".

    And, where a pan is installed, required or not, that pan then needs a proper drain.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    Jim,

    I forgot to add.

    Otherwise, but your thinking, if you only need ONE water heater, but TWO water heaters are installed, ONLY ONE needs to be installed correctly?

    No way!

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    Maybe we are not asking the right question here? Consider these three possibilities.

    Possibility one…A pan is required by code for the installation in question.
    If a pan is required by code then that pan must be present, must be suitable for the purpose, and must be installed along with its associated drain piping in a code compliant manner. (Just as Jerry has pointed out in his code recitations above.)

    Possibility two…A pan is not required by code for the installation in question and is not present.

    If a pan is not required by code then no pan need be present. If no pan is present, then there would naturally be no associated drain piping or termination to worry about.

    Possibility three…A pan is not required by code but one is present anyway. (Which may well be the case in the photo above.) Then the question evolves to…

    "Does the superfluous pan and piping system as installed provide, at minimum, an equivalent level of protection against potential water damage as that required by code? (Before you answer, keep in mind that that code requires no pan or piping system at all in this situation!)"

    If you understand that is possible to install a pan and piping system under a water heater that does not require such by code and create an out-of-code condition in so doing, then you understand why its important to ask the above question when a pan is present in a no-pan-required situation.

    Now lets revisit the photo at the top of this thread and ask our question again…

    "Does the superfluous pan and piping system as installed provide, at minimum, an equivalent level of protection against potential water damage as that required by code? (Before you answer, keep in mind that that code requires no pan or piping system at all in this situation!)."

    I would have to say that the setup pictured at the top of the thread probably provides a little more protection than the applicable minimum code standard of having no pan or drain piping at all. (But then I have always had my doubts about some of the minimum code standards.)



  7. #7
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    Having said the above,

    Whats with the red tag on the gas valve? Did the AHJ tag this unit for the pan situation or something else?


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    The other problem is that, IF something is installed, it must be installed in accordance with the requirements of the code and the manufacturer's installation instructions.

    One cannot (OK, it is proven to us daily that one 'can' do things which are not allowed) ... one must not, is not allowed to, just willy nilly install whatever they want in any manner they want.

    If 'not required by code', there are but two choices:

    1) DO NOT INSTALL IT.

    2) INSTALL IT PROPERLY.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    Jerry,

    You forgot the number#3...

    1) DO NOT INSTALL IT.

    2) INSTALL IT PROPERLY.


    3) Install per the local AHJ codes adopted-- which are only sometimes the most current requirements.

    Richurd


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Rushing View Post
    Jerry,

    You forgot the number#3...

    1) DO NOT INSTALL IT.

    2) INSTALL IT PROPERLY.

    3) Install per the local AHJ codes adopted-- which are only sometimes the most current requirements.

    Richurd

    Richard,

    Based on the statement: "If 'not required by code', there are but two choices:"

    That's not one of the choices. In the 'choice' you mentioned, it IS a 'code' requirement, thus it does not fit under "If 'not required by code' ... ". There are no choices other than to install it.

    By the way, did you catch the way you spelled your name in your post? Not to worry, I've done the same thing, 'Shoot, Jerry' I tell myself, 'You don't even know how to spell you own name.', I hope I catch them all before I click 'Submit'.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    Are there every ANY situations where a water heater is installed in locations where leakage of the tanks or connections will NOT cause damage. If so where and if not why did the code have the exclusion present?

    My thinking here is the local AHJ do not (to my knowledge) and have not required a pan when the heater is located in a garage.
    My thought is that the damage pertains to damage to the structure.
    Now, as I said "I" always call it out, but the AHJ does not.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Catch pan drain termination

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    My thought is that the damage pertains to damage to the structure.
    Some codes did/do/have used the phrase "cause damage to the structure", others did/do.have used "cause damage to the surrounding area", and some just state "cause damage".

    I would not take it upon myself to add the word "structure" to that.

    Keep doing what you are doing, calling it out.

    When it leaks and causes "damage" to their Great-Great-Great Aunt Edna's priceless antique stored next to it, you will not want them calling you, and if they do, tell them you wrote it up, then direct them to the AHJ.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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