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  1. #1
    Stephen Byington's Avatar
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    Default Finish plumbing permit question

    Hi all, have a quick question. I am trying to finish up my new build and in the final stages. I have my plumbing roughed in and a passed inspection sticker. The only remaining portion on the inside is installing my shutoff valves at the sinks/toilets, hooking up dishwasher, etc. and connecting everything up. Am I able to complete this or do I need to have a licensed plumber to pull a permit and finish the install out.

    thanks.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    It all depends on your local jurisdiction. Call and see what they require. You will likely need to pull the permit and get a final inspection for your CO. They may let you as a home owner do the work as long as you get a license plumber to sign off on it.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  3. #3
    Stephen Byington's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    Thanks! I wanted to make sure before I did anything and didn't want to look like the village idiot when they came to do the CO.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    The permit is probably already in place if you have a rough in inspection. The way they do it here is they pull the permit prior to the RI inspection. It's the same permit that they sign when they do the final. I'm not sure about doing the work yourself. My plumber lets me do a lot of things on my own, but I think he might need to call the county inspector to come over. I don't think I can call him to inspect unless I have a home owner permit, which I don't have.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  5. #5
    Stephen Byington's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    There is a permit for the rough in, but my plumber and I had a falling out due to some of policies. I just parted ways and told him he wouldn't be finishing the house up. Nothing shoddy about his work, he was just on a 2 day net and started calling myself and the wife nonstop every hour or so for about a week (trying to get a bank inspection scheduled) and I just wanted to move along. I will check but since the permit was pulled in his name there would have to be a different one pulled under a different name.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    The plumber "owns" the permit. He secured it and it has his name and license on it.

    You will either
    1. Secure a permit yourself. If allowed by the AHJ
    2. Hire another plumber to take over the job. There may be some legal ramifications on that!
    3. Make up with the original plumber and have him finish it.
    4. Rat it in yourself and hope the AHJ does not notice the original permit holder did not finish the job. Not recommended.


  7. #7
    Jerry Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Byington View Post
    started calling myself and the wife nonstop every hour or so for about a week (trying to get a bank inspection scheduled) and I just wanted to move along.

    I'm at a loss trying to figure out you could "move along" without that inspection? The easiest, quickest, and best way to "move along" would be to get each inspection as soon as each inspection was ready.

    Surely it would not have taken much to have set up that inspection, would it?

    The information in your posts just does not add up, at least to me.

    Sounds like a capitalization problem with both you and the plumber, and him wanting/needing his money 'now' instead of 'later', but that is reasonable to expect in these difficult times, at least for small contractors.

    Not enough information to make any judgments, but the information furnished does not completely add up either.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Stephen Byington's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I'm at a loss trying to figure out you could "move along" without that inspection? The easiest, quickest, and best way to "move along" would be to get each inspection as soon as each inspection was ready.

    Surely it would not have taken much to have set up that inspection, would it?

    The information in your posts just does not add up, at least to me.

    Sounds like a capitalization problem with both you and the plumber, and him wanting/needing his money 'now' instead of 'later', but that is reasonable to expect in these difficult times, at least for small contractors.

    Not enough information to make any judgments, but the information furnished does not completely add up either.
    Actually, he called and said he completed the job and wanted his money. It had not been inspected so I told him I would not pay him until it passed rough in inspection. Myself and a friend checked his work and he had several issues to address before it would pass inspection (left off all the stud guard plates) so I called and told him he needed to put those on. That put him off on his inspection for a week because they only inspect once a week. He kept calling and wanting his money (turns out he is net 3 which wasn't on his quote, my fault for not clarifing that) but I informed him I would not pay him until his worked passed. Well, it didn't pass inspection due to some issues so he had to readdress them. I told him until it passed inspection again I would not pay him. After another week to schedule his inspection he finally got it passed. At that point, I did pay him half the money because I had it leftover from a previous draw. Then, my bank requires a bill so he had to mail it to me and then I submit it to the bank who schedules their own inspection to come verify the sticker. After he passed inspection for his work, I paid him the remaining half in less than 2 weeks, but he had been calling for a month saying he was finished with his work and the inspection didn't matter.

    After the rough in inspection, I informed him he would not be completing the work because my wife and I can not be bothered at our workplace every 2 hours from a phone call wanting to know when they would get their money. I just wanted to move along from dealing with him when he was paid within 2 weeks of getting a passing inspection, I don't need the hassle.

    Try to find a bank to pay out $10,000 in a 2 day period, doesn't happen around here, takes about 2 weeks for their process which isn't unreasonable for being paid after the work is completed. In my eyes, the work was not complete until it had a passing inspection sticker.

    He was going to do the HVAC also but he lost out on a $15,000 job because of it.

    Anyhoo, way off topic but to clarify.

    I have a plumber pulling a permit for the water/septic lines and he is going to finish it out for me cheap, friend of her dad.


  9. #9
    Jerry Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Byington View Post
    In my eyes, the work was not complete until it had a passing inspection sticker.

    I agree that until it passes inspection the work is not complete.

    The problem I foresee in the future is that when something is out of place, does not line up correctly, or does not work properly, there will be a conflict between the original work done by the first plumber and the rest done by the other person.

    Before having him take the job on, I would - at the very least - have the new plumber review the existing work and tell you if it all looks okay, and offer to pay him for it. If he checks it out and approves it first, then he has less room to wiggle on saying it is the 'other plumber's work'.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    Stephen Byington's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I agree that until it passes inspection the work is not complete.

    The problem I foresee in the future is that when something is out of place, does not line up correctly, or does not work properly, there will be a conflict between the original work done by the first plumber and the rest done by the other person.

    Before having him take the job on, I would - at the very least - have the new plumber review the existing work and tell you if it all looks okay, and offer to pay him for it. If he checks it out and approves it first, then he has less room to wiggle on saying it is the 'other plumber's work'.
    good point, will do that.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    In most municipalities the home owner is allowed to do any work on his own home. Plumbing, electric , carpentry etc. But if you hire anyone they have to be licensed contractors. A homeowner can pull a plumbing permit if they are doing the work.

    Hope this helps.

    Steve
    Owl Inspection Services
    Villa park IL.


  12. #12
    Ron Hasil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Reilly View Post
    In most municipalities the home owner is allowed to do any work on his own home. Plumbing, electric , carpentry etc. But if you hire anyone they have to be licensed contractors. A homeowner can pull a plumbing permit if they are doing the work.

    Hope this helps.

    Steve
    Owl Inspection Services
    Villa park IL.
    Steve, in Illinois that is not true when it comes to plumbing. Illinois is very strict on hiring a licensed plumber to do any plumbing work on the home. The code does allow for minor repairs. Below is from the Illinois Plumbing Code book.

    Section 890.120 Definitions

    "Minor Repairs": Repairs that do not require changes in the piping to or from plumbing fixtures or involve the removal, replacement, installation or reinstallation of any pipe or plumbing fixture.


  13. #13
    Stephen Byington's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    Here the homeowner can do his/her own electrical by signing the forms (which I did) but plumbing must come from a licensed contractor. I found a friend of my wife's dad who is going to finish it for me cheap, he simply went down and got an affidavid stating he could finish the house and released the permit for the other company.


  14. #14
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    Years ago when I was still doing remodel work I stopped doing all work that required me to be used as a bank. There is nothing worse (I am not saying you did this) than someone believing in their mind that they control you because they control the pen. I had a very strict pa scheduled that I drew on weekly. If the folks did not have the money to do the job then they needed to get someone else to play banker.

    Yes, there is a point where it is good to get a bank draw but in the rediculous areas where they will only come once a week and no more is rediculous. In cases like that is is totaly unfair to anyone performing work to wait a wee for this and then 2 weeks for that, absurd.

    In a new build that may be one thing. But in a remodel that is quite another.

    I once upon a time did work for condtruction management companies and that ended about as quick as it started. They pay no one for anything until they get paid buy the owner of the property. They are simply managing the build. Thatis about the most rediculous way to do work. You do the work, the construction management folks turn in an invoice once a month for that work. The owner has a certain time frame to check the process of the work. He turn in a draw to the bank. The bank has the work inspected and then the process starts for the money to go back thru 3 people in some cases filtering its way down to you. That is an absolute joke. Sometimes you may do the work at the beginning of the month. They turn it in at the end of the month. From that point you may be waiting 30, 60 90 freaking days for your money. Again, rediculous.

    I obviously do not know other than what you are telling us went really went on with you and the plumber. I can understand where you are coming from (a little) but with out hearing both sides and me being in the situation of the plumber thousands of times in the past I can understand his absolute frustration and agrivation. Gees. An inspectionis done. There are a couple minor issues. He fixes them and may have to wait to the end of the next week for an re inspect and then have to wait a couple more weeks for the bank to do their thing. Like I said....Absurd.

    That is why I got away from the construction end years ago and would never consider going back.

    I can tell you of the stories of home owners holding the power in their hand. My God man. It is like putting a badge on someones chest. They come into the project and even though things are on schedule they start pointing to this and that and trying to tell anyone who may be around how things should be done and they want this and they want that and how come that is not being worked on when is not its time to be worked on and then they huff and puff and make a big freaking ordeal with moans and sighs hovering over the check and take 20 minutes more to write it out so you have to stand there and listen to their heavy breathing and bull crap just to show you how they think they are in control.

    Wooooo hooooo. Man I better stop. The memories. Ah yes the memories. Thank God they are just memories.

    Ted Menelly, Castle Home Inspection Services
    www.inspectmycastle.com
    Fort Worth, Keller, Southlake, Plano, Flower Mound, DFW, TX

  15. #15
    Stephen Byington's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finish plumbing permit question

    Do I agree with the bank and how they are controlling MY money alloted for the build? Nope. But, I do not believe in paying someone until the job is complete and has a signed bill of goods (pass sticker). Not going to do it and neither will the bank. Not beating a dead horse because that wasn't what this thread was based on. It took him several weeks from the point he told me it was complete to get a passing inspection sticker, after passing his inspection, it took another week for my bank to verify (as they have to before issuing any money) and get it transferred to my account. He was paid within 7 working days of getting a passing inspection sticker but for the two weeks he was trying to get it passed he was calling every few hours wanting his money.

    I found it really tough to find a bank in my house building venture that would lend me money after I told them I was the contractor and completing many items myself. I am no expert but have family and friends who are and have gotten me almost to the point of completion. I finally found Buildmax whom I used (I think they basically carry the insurance note type deal) and they setup a bank that would allow me to be the general contractor. Worth it to me for the money, well worth it for what I have in the end. The bank is based out of somewhere not even close to me so they subcontract an inspector, etc. etc.

    Offsubject, this is a great site, I find myself spending quite a few hours every few days just reading on topics.

    Last edited by Stephen Byington; 04-28-2009 at 09:16 PM.

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