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When I posted a similar question last year this is part of the reply I got from Jerry Peck:

"Look at the installation requirements for the shower pan material - the shower pan material ITSELF is required to slope 1/4" per foot to the drain."

John is correct.

It used to be only in the manufacturers installation instructions, now it's in the code too.

- P2709.3 Installation.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Jeff,

Your best to inform your client and avoid a pissing match with the builder.

JMHO

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Rick Hurst_Home Works Inspection Co_Rockwall TX
In the words of Mike Tyson.... "Everyone has a plan until they get hit inda mouf"

I agree with Rick....write what you see and let others decide what is to be done.

You Whimp!

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Jerry,

Whimp? I can accept that.

I have argued with enough of these builders over the years to last me a lifetime.

I give my clients facts and tell them if the builder disagrees for him to show my client his facts otherwise.

It never happens. The builder knows you have him by the spheres and can't argue back with anything legit.

I just don't have the time to bullshit with these builders or paid to do so.

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Rick Hurst_Home Works Inspection Co_Rockwall TX
In the words of Mike Tyson.... "Everyone has a plan until they get hit inda mouf"

Guess that's the difference ... I did.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Jerry,

I make plenty $$$ myself too, and don't argue with the builders. Not much anyway.

Here's an example of why I don't argue with builders.

At a 7K sq. ft. place today. Everything is going fine because I'm there by myself.

The builder shows up and starts yaking about why in the he77 the buyer is even having an inspection. He said he felt insulted.

Anyway he has a fixture man coming in to install a big arse chandelier over the hydrotherapy tub. A bit gaudy I know, and against code.

I mention to the installer that he's wasting his time and he'll probably be coming back to take it down after the buyer sees my inspection report.

He goes and gets the builder who comes in and starts in calling me everything but a white-boy.

He even assumed I'm having an affair with his mother too, because he called me a motherf.....

He gets all pissed off and jumps in his big arse 4X4 and backs right into the agent pulling in the driveway in her 2 week old Mercedes. Yeah, one of those 100K plus type ones too.

I'm still laughing about it. I wanted to take a picture for you but I didn't have my firearm loaded in case things got out of hand with both parties.

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Rick Hurst_Home Works Inspection Co_Rockwall TX
In the words of Mike Tyson.... "Everyone has a plan until they get hit inda mouf"

"The builder shows up and starts yaking about why in the he77 the buyer is even having an inspection"

One of the few new construction inspections I've done in the past couple of years - the builder's son, who is "in charge" of this development, is down in the basement with me, complaining about why ANOTHER inspection is needed, since the code guy has been there, etc. All the while he's moaning about this, he's standing right next to a metal post holding up a beam (barely) that is so tilted I can't believe it. If it was plumb, it wouldn't have been touching the beam, but that's another story. It was all I could do not to just laugh in his face.

Rick,

Many of my clients hired me to do sit downs with the builders.

Right there at the breakfast room table in their new home: my client, the builder, and me - for however long it took, for as many days as it took, to help the builder digest my report, line item by line item, photo by photo, if that is what the builder needed to 'understand what he was up against'.

I spent many hours at those sit downs, at $150 per hour, 3 hour minimum.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Maybe that is something to consider, Jerry.

Is there like eggs, pancakes, and stuff like that on the table.

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Rick Hurst_Home Works Inspection Co_Rockwall TX
In the words of Mike Tyson.... "Everyone has a plan until they get hit inda mouf"

A couple of times, yes, bacon, sausage, eggs ... but no pancakes. (Of course, though, that was the rarity, not the norm.)

Now, though, they did make sandwiches when we ran over into and past lunch time, which *was* fairly often. Ummmm ... could that be why I put some weight on back then?

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Did you lay a level on the floor to see if it had a between a 1/4' and 1/2" slope on it?

I did not worry about stuff like that. If the floor slope was noticeable, with granite/marble/saturnia/travertine/wood, it's too much. The top surface of those things should be flat-flat. The slab could be slope, but the floor installers *responsibility*, their *first responsibility* is to prepare the floor, make it flat-flat, to receive the flooring.

If you 'feel it' roll a golf ball across it, you will see what is high and what is low.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

I was referring to the shower floor slope. As long as the level shows a slope to the drain it should be ok. Tile work is not an exact science and as long as the level shows grade then a dip or two is normal.

whoooosh!!!!! Sorry.

No that only tells you if the *TILE* is sloped, not if the *PAN LINER* is sloped.

It's been in the manufacturer's installation instructions from day one, but no one paid any attention to it. Now, though, it's clearly in the code itself (and still, few people even know it there).

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

How would we tell if the pan is flat and thin set (I am supposing) was applied to slope the tiles, or if the pan itself was sloped in a finished shower?

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The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
- Paul Fix

By looking ... but only on new construction.

Well, sometimes, but rarely, you might be able to look in or around a shower from a back side in some houses, but probably not very many.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )