Ejector and sump pumps - InspectionNews

john m graham · #1 (**permalink**) 04-03-2007, 02:37 PM

While inspecting new construction single family house, there was a functional ejector pump but not a separate sump. Is it possible that this ejector serves both purposes? Your thoughts?

john m graham, Chicago

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John Arnold · #2 (**permalink**) 04-03-2007, 03:00 PM

Seems to me that if it did serve both purposes, then the waste/sewage could get into the foundation drainage system. I don't see how this could work. So, I vote no.

Michael Thomas · #3 (**permalink**) 04-03-2007, 03:45 PM

You can have one without the other. For example my house (immediately north of Chicago, in Evanston) - which has a first floor 18" below grade - has an ejector pump to prevent sewage backup from the overloaded sewer system, but does not require a foundation drainage system.

Dan Cullen · #4 (**permalink**) 04-04-2007, 03:30 PM

Hi John....i've seen that same situation in some homes in Chicago. Since we have a combined sewer system (waste and perimeter drainage go to the same sewer in the street) it may not matter that there is only one pit and pump that serves both purposes. However, if there is a lot of groundwater to pump out then the pump is doing double duty and will have a shorter service life. I, like most inspectors I think, don't take the cover off of the sewage ejector pump so I could not see the drain inlets. I did call a couple plumbing pals who were not aware of any code restrictions regarding this type of set up.

Dan Cullen

Mike Huppi · #5 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007, 03:08 PM

Does the sewage ejection pump have to be GFCI protected?

I know sump pumps do but dont know about the sewage pump

Jerry Peck · #6 (**permalink**) 04-06-2007, 10:42 AM

If it's in a basement or a crawlspace, yes, the receptacle outlet needs to be GFCI protected.

Tim Moreira · #7 (**permalink**) 04-06-2007, 01:09 PM

Jerry,

I know that GFCIs are required in crawl spaces but...if motors are attached won't they trip?

I thought there was an exception for dedicated equipment. Meaning that outlet should not be a duplex unless there are two pumps or a single outlet with only the pump installed?

I this correct?

Jerry Peck · #8 (**permalink**) 04-06-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Moreira

I know that GFCIs are required in crawl spaces but...if motors are attached won't they trip?

Nope.

Old equipment, maybe, but that is really telling you that the old equipment needs to be replaced.

For newer equipment, the level of ground fault leakage permissible for the equipment to be listed and labeled is 0.05 ma. Remember, a GFCI trips at 5 ma. That means the equipment would need to have ground fault leakage of 100 times its allowable limit before it trips a GFCI.

If the equipment ground fault current it that high, you WANT IT TO TRIP the GFCI.

#9 (**permalink**) 04-06-2007, 04:26 PM

I think Tim is right about the dedicated single outlet not having to be GFCI protected. It's the same as freezer outlet in a garage.

Jim Kasterko · #10 (**permalink**) 04-06-2007, 04:56 PM

Many places would not want groundwater in the sewage system. Folks with septics and municipalities that don't want or need the extra water.
Jiim Kasterko

Jerry Peck · #11 (**permalink**) 04-06-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dick whitfield

I think Tim is right about the dedicated single outlet not having to be GFCI protected. It's the same as freezer outlet in a garage.

Sorry Dick and Tim, but there is no exception.

From the NEC.
- 210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.
- - (A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
- - - (4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level

Period. No exceptions.

Tim Moreira · #12 (**permalink**) 04-06-2007, 09:12 PM

Well Jerry,

I stand corrected. In re-reading 210.8 (4) you are correct.

There is no exceptions on the crawl space. I guess I had it confused with Dick's example of the garage with dedicated outlets.

02 NEC:

Quote:

(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use

Quote:

Exception No. 2: A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8).

Thank you for the clarification.