A faulty TP valve messed this one up.



The Daily Item, Sunbury, PA - Faulty valve to blame

Holy cow, but don't forget the faulty thermostat.
How many test the T&P vlave? If you do, what do you do when it continues to leak or drip after testing? Use Jerry's "Failed under testing" (I'm sure that would fly).

Fritz we (TX) are required (unless an exception applies) to operate the manual lever. Pretty easy to get around doing it with an exception, but if it leaks, it leaks and I did not cause it. The homeowner is supposed to test it at least annually and have a plumber "service" it every three years. The same instruction sheet on the valve tells them to call a plumber if it leaks.
Just like a GFCI, you don't have a problem with calling it defective if it won't reset after you test, right?

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Jim Luttrall
Mr. Inspector.net, Inc.
Allen, Texas 75002

I guess anything can happen, but I can't imagine a T&P sticking closed. I wonder if someone might have capped off a leaking drain line?

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Rick Cantrell
Columbus GA

It always did.

Here is the key to testing T&P relief valves (do this and it is *HIGHLY UNLIKELY* that you will ever have a problem):

*IF* the valve does not open with limited pressure (go by the Big Box stores and play with some T&P valves and see how little (how much) pressure it typically takes, check yours, your neighbors, friends, family (you will be doing both you and them a favor) *DO NOT FORCE IT*.

A "safety valve" *IS NOT* allowed to be stuck, even once, so don't let a seller, agent, plumber, or 'handyman' say 'well, it works *NOW*' - if it is stuck, write it up for replacement.

If you force you, you could be in for some real surprises.

If, on the other hand, the valve is not stuck, it will release 'easily', and re-seat easily. If a little debris (mineral deposits) keep it from re-seating, open and close it a few times to flush out the debris, and if it does not re-seat, the valve needs to be replaced.

Now, mind you, that's all and good for *the way the T&P discharges used to be when they went outside*, but the new way of flooding the house to notify the owner is different.

I would treat that like I did shower stalls where I could see water staining around the outside of them - call in the agent and say 'The shower pan leaks, see that over there?' When the agent says 'But is it leaking now?", you respond with 'Well, I can check it, but if it I do and it floods the house, YOU will be responsible for cleaning it all up - do YOU really want me to test it?' When they say 'YES, PROVE IT', well, that, ladies and gents is your call to arms to PROVE IT, so do so, and, when it leaks all over, just like you said it would, you point it out to the agent and say 'I guess YOU will be needing some towels.', then walk away and keep on inspecting.

Do that once or twice and they will understand that you mean what you say: 1) it WILL leak; 2) it is up to THEM to clean it up.

Now, just change 'shower stall' with T&P, 'well, it IS old and it needs to be replaced ...', and they say 'PROVE IT ... ' - do so, and when it overflows and makes a mess, it is their mess to clean up.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

That was from my old hometown newspaper. Mifflinburg is farm country, about 10 miles from where I was born and raised. It was probably an electric water heater, as there isn't much natural gas out there. Who knows, they could have blocked off the relief valve piping to keep it from dripping. Glad it wasn't anyone I know.

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Jim Robinson
New Mexico, USA

Here is a picture of a relief valve off a boiler , but I have replaced water heater relief valves that looked like this...............

Attached Images

relief1.jpg (49.1 KB, 67 views)

I recently had a water heater explode due to a faulty relief valve. I was away on a trip when it happened and fortunately the water supply was turned off. This is why I'm concerned about a pair of water heaters installed in the attic of a home we just purchased...testing the valves periodically will be difficult with only a scuttlehole access to the attic.

The few times I've test the valves on my heaters, I've had problems getting them to stop leaking....a few flicks of the lever usually cleans the seat and the leak stops. SD

Steve,

I am confused.

"I recently had a water heater explode... "

"fortunately the water supply was turned off."

See my problem?

How can a water heater explode when the gas or electric is off?

Surely you did not turn the water off without turning the energy source off, right?

If you did, then it was likely *not* a faulty T&P valve, it was more likely thermal expansion from the water heater heating the confined water in a closed system with no place for the expansion to take place.

In which case the fault likely lies in not having a thermal expansion tank.

Also, explain "water heater exploded" ... did it "explode", "burst", or "rupture at a seam"? Thermal expansion could do the later two, and, yes, the T&P should relieve the pressure at 150 psi, but a thermal expansion tank would have prevented pressures from getting that high - thermal expansion tanks should not allow the pressure to exceed 80 psi, and there should be a pressure relief to keep the pressure down to there ifs there are other sources of high pressure. The piping system itself is likely to fail due to high pressure if the thermal expansion is not taken up or relieved.

An "exploding" water heater would have destroyed part of the house too, was your house destroyed?

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Steve,

Did you turn the power source off or just the water main off?

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It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie!
Billy J. Stephens HI Service
Memphis TN.

The gas was not turned off and there was no thermal expansion tank. The tank bottom blew out (40 gallons on the floor) and the vent cap blew up and got stuck in the basement rafters.

Question for you guys....and this applies to another post I have on this forum. I have a vacation house in NC with 2 water heaters in the attic. Both have thermal expansion tanks. When I leave the house for 3-4 weeks at a time, I shut off the main water supply. Is it absolutely necessary to turn the gas off as well??

SD

"Is it absolutely necessary to turn the gas off as well??"

Not if your insurance is paid and there is no family or friends staying in the house.

It is recommended that water heater installations have a thermal expansion tank. One of the factors that contributed to my tank failure was not having one. I now have one in installed with the replacement water heater. The Amtrol unit I purchased came with a factory pre-charge of 40psi and I increased (via the Shrader valve on the bottom of the unit) to 85psi (ie, equal to the supply water pressure).

When you do a home inspection, do you check the pressure on the expansion tank to ensure it is correctly pressurized to protect the heater? I assume an expansion tank with little or no pressure is the same has having none at all. SD

PS - here's a photo of the replacement tank ...the T&P drain tube (not shown in photo) is now in place. The grey sediment on the floor behind the water heater is from the previous unit that "over-expanded" .

Hi Steve, you have thick skin, my congratulations on staying on the forum in spite of some pretty pointed "observations". There is much information to be had here but thick skin is a requirement.
As was mentioned, the gas or electric needs to be turned off if the water is shut down or at least turned to pilot or vacation setting. Off is safest.
No, I don't check pressure on the expansion tanks, but it might not be a bad idea. That is something that should be done at installation and would be beyond the scope of most HI since to properly test or adjust the pressure to the bladder, the water pressure would have to be removed since the bladder in the tank would be compressed by the household water pressure increasing the relative pressure in the tank bladder. Not quite as simple as checking tire pressure even though it is a Schroeder valve.
Stick around, you have some good questions.

p.s. make sure the expansion tank is properly sized for the application, a big heater or dual heaters requires a larger expansion tank.

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Jim Luttrall
Mr. Inspector.net, Inc.
Allen, Texas 75002

Steve,

Did you read the attached before install.I see something missing.

Your photo shows signs of water intrusion on your brick wall.

If you Don't know what you are LOOKING FOR you are just LOOKING not Inspecting.

Sorry Steve this is a Knock against you.

Attached Images

Exspan. Tank Install.pdf (70.3 KB, 27 views)

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It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie!
Billy J. Stephens HI Service
Memphis TN.

Steves photo shows the gas line hooked directly to the water heater.
Isn't a flex line required on this installation?

Dan,

Black Pipe with a 3in min. drip leg is OK.

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It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie!
Billy J. Stephens HI Service
Memphis TN.

I definitely read the instructions. Not sure what you mean by water intrusion on the brick wall (there was a bit of water in that spot when the previous unit let go). Note that our NJ house is 115yrs old and that wall behind the heater is the backside of the chimney. The water heater supplies hot water to the 2nd/3rd floor. The first floor water heater has been replaced with an indirect unit....see photos below.




Here a link to a larger photo........

http://www.ultimategarage.com/homega...on2display.jpg

I think Billy is talking about,
#1 The T&P valve needs a drain line
#2 (I think) there should be a bracket to support the expansion tank

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Rick Cantrell
Columbus GA