T&P failed test ... seller's agent "unhappy" - InspectionNews

Nolan Kienitz · #1 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 07:33 AM

Seems like the week for T&P stories ... thought I'd toss this one in:

In Texas we (HIs) are expected/required to test the T&P valve on the W/H unless there is a good reason for "not" testing same.

Well ... I could not come up with any good reason why I could not test the T&P valve at a property I was inspecting. Ergo ... twist, turn and trip the lever. Water flows lever 'resets' ... aahhh ... , but won't fully seat and seal. Constant dripping and during remainder of my HI I keep checking and trying to reset T&P. No luck ... continues dripping ... actually more than just a minor drip.

Oh well ... I wait until seller comes home and I advise her of the situation and how T&P valves are to be tested and so on. Seller says she is calling plumber and will get it handled.

Great. Two days later I get a call from the buyer's agent (she had heard the information from me already) and told me that the seller's agent (BTW a 'new' agent) was demanding I pay for causing the failure and that I should not be causing such damages/destruction and that they were thinking about legal action and even a complaint to TREC about not doing the job correctly.

WELL ... that set me off, but I cooled down and told the buyer's agent that I would provide them with the number to TREC and that there would not be a problem as I was simply doing what the SOP said to do.

All that being said ... turns out to be a non-issue as the seller's agent was strutting her stuff trying to impress her client and even the sellers didn't respect her and it has all been worked out okay. Sellers have since e-mailed and asked for a HI referral to the another city in Texas they are moving to.

Gotta love it.

Rick Hurst · #2 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 07:45 AM

Was it in a Kevin Cosner movie once where the term was used, "Open it and it will leak" ?

Or was it "Build it and they will come"?

It was a great baseball movie anyway.

rick

BARRY ADAIR · #3 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 07:52 AM

Nolan,

You're working the wrong neighborhoods.
Rick and I are getting the failures upon arrival or during the inspection.

Never take a complaint lightly. TREC loves to revue the entire report for any little nit picking infractions on the inspectors part.

Good thing they didn't run spell check or I'd be toast for abbreviations (abbr)oh wait they must AC is not supposed to be used in the Cooling Equipment comments.

Doug Haglund · #4 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 08:37 AM

I am glad I live in WI.so I don't have to test them or touch any valves. Big problems can result in this. Happy inspecting.

Jim Zborowski · #5 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 08:40 AM

Happens to all of us at some time or another. I wouldn't lose sleep over it, it's in the SOP's.
I've had GFCI's fail under test, TPI's, garage door openers. that's why you are there, to inspect and test.

Scott Patterson · #6 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 09:56 AM

I have found that if you move the little handle on the TP valve and it twirls easy then the valve is not frozen closed. But if it does not move then it is frozen closed and needs replacing.

It is almost a guarantee that if you do pop the valve open, it will not close properly and it will leak.

Mike Boyett · #7 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 02:30 PM

Nolan, if the proposed new Texas SOP ever makes it thru committee and is accepted then the requirement to operate the T&P valve goes away for us.

Rick Hurst · #8 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 03:11 PM

Sometimes when the valve is still slightly leaking once you have flipped the valve back closed, a little tap on the brass section of the valve will cause the valve to reset itself.

Nolan Kienitz · #9 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Sometimes when the valve is still slightly leaking once you have flipped the valve back closed, a little tap on the brass section of the valve will cause the valve to reset itself.

As Scott noted as well ... turn the handle first .

Heck, I spun (is that a word?) it many time before even attempting to lift/open.

And over the next hour or so during the HI, I tried many times tapping on the valve ... but ... what the heck ... It is what it is and that is/was part of the job.

Can just decide to put in a "fail/replacement" statement for any that are over 3-years old.

John Brown · #10 (**permalink**) 03-03-2008, 12:30 PM

A little secret on getting a drippy T&P to stop:

Cut off water to heater and relieve water pressure back to atmospheric, and then reset. Then bring the pressure back up and voila....

Doesn't always work but its worth trying.

John

Dom D'Agostino · #11 (**permalink**) 03-03-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Brown

A little secret on getting a drippy T&P to stop:

Cut off water to heater and relieve water pressure back to atmospheric, and then reset. Then bring the pressure back up and voila....

Doesn't always work but its worth trying.

John

Except that method means you have now operated the shut-off valve that hasn't been turned in 5+ years. Guess what leaks next?

Eric Van De Ven · #12 (**permalink**) 03-03-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino

Except that method means you have now operated the shut-off valve that hasn't been turned in 5+ years. Guess what leaks next?

Or, breaks in your hand!

Jim Luttrall · #13 (**permalink**) 03-03-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Boyett

Nolan, if the proposed new Texas SOP ever makes it thru committee and is accepted then the requirement to operate the T&P valve goes away for us.

Not according to the latest draft of the SOP... (bold is mine)

Quote:

(m) Water heaters. The inspector shall inspect the unit(s) and:
(1) report the energy source;
(2) report as Deficient:
(A) inoperative unit(s);
(B) leaking or corroded fittings or tank(s);
(C) broken or missing parts or controls;
(D) the lack of a cold water shut-off valve;
(E) if applicable, the lack of a pan and drain system and the improper termination of the pan drain line;
(F) an unsafe location;
(G) burners, burner ignition devices or heating elements, switches, or thermostats that are not a minimum of 18 inches above the lowest garage floor elevation, unless the unit is listed for garage floor installation;
(H) the lack of protection from physical damage to the unit;
(I) a temperature and pressure relief valve that:
(i) does not operate manually;
(ii) leaks;
(iii) is damaged;
(iv) cannot be tested due to obstructions;
(v) is corroded; or
(vi) is improperly located;

There is a departure provision:

Quote:

(n) Specific limitations for water heater. The inspector is not required to:
(1) verify the effectiveness of the temperature and pressure relief valve discharge piping or pan drain pipes;
(2) operate the temperature and pressure relief valve if the operation of the valve may in the judgment of the inspector cause damage to persons or property; or

Richard Stanley · #14 (**permalink**) 03-03-2008, 02:33 PM

operate the temperature and pressure relief valve if the operation of the valve may in the judgment of the inspector cause damage to persons or property;

This covers all of them.

Jim Luttrall · #15 (**permalink**) 03-03-2008, 02:57 PM

True, Richard, and that is precisely what most will opt to do, but if it "failed to operate manually" then the way I read it, it will have to be marked as deficient (or whatever the new term is). Which means every single inspection report will have that as a repair item even though I would not choose to report it that way... The only thing that manually tripping a valve today proves is, that today you can manually trip the valve. It says nothing about the present or future reliability of the valve. Kind of like the argument about pressing the test button on a smoke detector.

James Duffin · #16 (**permalink**) 03-03-2008, 04:23 PM

A relief valve is only $20 to buy and $75 to replace. It is really not a big deal if it leaks or if it is not tested. Same price to fix either way. If it leaks after testing then valve off the cold feed and open a hot water faucet to relieve the pressure...and write it up as defective.