While inspecting a hot water tank today I noticed that the cpvc fitting connected to the tpr valve said "cold water only". I thought cpvc was designed for hot and cold water.

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Greg Jenkins

There are several brands of plastic TPR pipe on the market, the more prevalent is polyethylene, a white-ish plastic pipe made for TPR valves.
Are you sure it was CPVC?

Dom.

It was the cream colored pipe or off white pipe. The fitting was connected to a labeled cpvc pipe. The pipe and the fitting were the same color.

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Greg Jenkins

I have never seen a CPVC pipe or fitting that read "cold water only".

Was this a sticker, a label, a notice, etc.? Where did this wording occur? Have any photos?

Dom.

Regardless what it was made from, it if was labeled "cold water only", then, no, it is not allowed for use as a T&P relief valve discharge pipe.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

I did not take a picture of it. The wording was embossed into the plastic. It was not an affixed label.

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Greg Jenkins

Well I'll be derned. Just did a little research -- apparently ALL CPVC MIP'S are NOT recommended for transitioning from metal to cpvc. Differences in thermal expansion between the metal and CPVC may cause leaks.

Here's but one example:

http://www.ppfahome.org/images/CPVC_...tion_FINAL.pps


(scroll down a bit.)

Even though the MIP's say for cold water only, I wonder if it matters if it's a situation where you're just going from a CPVC FIP to MIP.

Greg,

Ask and thou shall receive.. Is this board not the greatest?

I have been back tracking my files for the last month and probably found exactly what you are talking of. I found the same CPVC last month on a TPR valve.

Does this look familar?

Rick

Attached Images

	CIMG4148.jpg (20.2 KB, 89 views)
	CIMG4152.jpg (21.1 KB, 101 views)

Rick - That's the fitting.
The house I was inspecting was new construction and I had another reason to speak with the builder this morning. I told him about the fitting and he said it would be corrected. He too was not familiar with the "Cold Water Only Marking".
Thanks for all the input. That's what I like about this board.

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Greg Jenkins

I'll be derned too!

I'll say yes if you are talking about changing from CPVC to another material (metal), but not if you are going CPVC to CPVC (but why would you do that?).

Attached Images

CPVC_male_adapter_as_transistion_for_cold_water_only_04.pdf (4.4 KB, 39 views)

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Eh, knows Jerry. I can't think of a situation off the top of my head where I'd need to transition from CPVC-FIP to CPVC-MIP, unless I ran out of couplings. heh. The literature says not to be used as a transition from CPVC to metal, so that doesn't exclude cpvc-cpvc (which isn't much of a transition :/ ), but the fitting itself only says COLD WATER ONLY.

Joshua,

"so that doesn't exclude cpvc-cpvc (which isn't much of a transition :/ ), "

Then that fitting would not be a "transition", it would just be an "adapter".

"Adapters" do not have that limitation as they are used for like material to like material, thus the expansion and contraction coefficients would be the same.

Now, the key is, when we see an 'adapter' being used as a 'transistion', we need to know (to remember) to look and make sure it is marked 'Cold water use only', otherwise they are using an "adapter" instead of a "transition" fitting.

Likewise, we need to remember to look at 'adapters' being used as 'adaptors' to make sure they are not "transistions" and are not marked 'Cold water use only'.

In reality, I'm guessing that almost every 'adapter' we see being used is really being used as a "transitionadapterstransitionstransition", which means it is incorrect.

Recently I re-worked my sprinkler system, removing the interior of the indexing zone valve to allow it to serve as a manifold instead of a valve, then installed electrically controlled valves for each zone off the manifold. I used "adapters" as "adapters" from the PVC pipe into the PVC valves, so I actually did it correctly, without knowing that I was. Whew!

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

So where would you be able to use a CPVC male adapter since they are most always used to change from metal to CPVC pipe?

I was re-reading these posts and checked out the links posted and read the documentation. It seems to me that all of the documentation is referring to the water supply system that is under pressure. It makes sense that leaks may occur if the system is under pressure. But what is the problem with using the cpvc fitting labeled "cold water only" on the TPR valve. The cpvc is still rated for hot water and the system is not under pressure so leaks are not an issue. I found the same fitting on another water tank today. The home was a manufactured home. I suspect there are a gazillion of these things attached to water tanks and probably no problems.

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Greg Jenkins

James,

Basically going from CPVC pipe to a valve or fitting which is threaded instead of slip for solvent welding.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Greg,

The problem is that those are made for (molded right into the fitting) "Cold Water Only" and the T&P relief valve is "hot water".

Therein it is wrong.

Why try to justify something which is "wrong". If the speed limit is 65 mph and everyone is going 85 mph, will you try to talk your way out of getting a ticket by saying "What is wrong with me going 85 mph - everyone is doing it?", just because 'it is always done' does not make it correctly done.

That's what we are for, and why there will always be a need for us - because people do things the way they've always done it ... right or wrong.

Just like people who drive 85 mph all the time ... "Well, it has not been a problem ... yet."

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Jerry,

I know technically it is incorrect and I am not trying to justify it so I can overlook it when I am inspecting. My point is that I think there are many examples where we all use things that they were not desinged for. Manufactures of products can not test there products for every possible crazy way that we humans might try to use it. (how many times have you used your screw driver to pry something? - well it was designed to turn a screw.)
Now that I know to look for the wording on the fitting, I will continue to call it out because technically it is wrong.
In the words of Forest Gump "That's all I have to say about that."

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Greg Jenkins

Greg,

I was trying to head the above off before it got there.

When things are labeled "Cold Water Only", there is a reason for it, in this case, it has been tested for it, and it failed, the reason being posted in that information.

Just this afternoon I assembled a tricycle for our granddaughter, I used the handle of a screw driver for a hammer to try to hammer the axle caps on, when that did not work, I went and got a hammer (I have many from my construction days). Do you want your clients to have to go get something, or advise them it's not right in the first place?

Like you and Joshua, I just learned about those things yesterday too.

Crimeny, how many things are we going to have to keep learning about?

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

While the cold water only marking surprised me I understand why it's there. The threaded portion of the transition fitting is not suitable under pressure and temperature conditions combined.

I don't think there is a real problem with using it for the TPR discharge as the CPVC is approved for that use and you have to use a transition fitting of this type to be able to use the CPVC pipe which is not under high pressure(not closed system) when called upon to discharge the water. JMHO