Trap setup completely backwards - InspectionNews

Brian Thomas · #1 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 12:23 PM

Let me preface this by letting you know that this is actually in my home and no i didnt install it this way. It has been this way for the 5 yeas I have been here and we have never had a problem with that shower draining slowly.

Your eyes are not deceiving you, the water does have to travel upwards about 7 inches from the horizontal pipe before it can enter the main drain line.

How would one write this up, if it werent in my own home?

Jerry Peck · #2 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 12:47 PM

I am assuming that is a vent going up out of the top of that tee.

'Tub trap plumbed incorrectly to the vent and waste connections.'

'Have licensed and competent plumbing contractor properly correct.'

Any more than than and the explanation could get real long.

Jerry McCarthy · #3 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 01:25 PM

'Have licensed and competent plumbing contractor properly correct.'

Jerry P, you appear to not firmly believe that licensed plumbers may not also be competent plumbers? I mean, how can you have both? sheech, I'd much rather have a competent plumber than a licensed plumber, wouldn't you?

Nolan Kienitz · #4 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 01:30 PM

"broke ... fix it!"

Brian Thomas · #5 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I am assuming that is a vent going up out of the top of that tee.

'Tub trap plumbed incorrectly to the vent and waste connections.'

'Have licensed and competent plumbing contractor properly correct.'

Any more than than and the explanation could get real long.

Yes, that goes up to the main vent stack.

She works like a charm, no problems!

Dom D'Agostino · #6 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 02:32 PM

The pic shows new pvc joined to old pvc. All the fittings and couplers used are standard, so a "proper repair" wouldn't be difficult at all.

Scott Patterson · #7 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

'Have licensed and competent plumbing contractor properly correct.'

Jerry P, you appear to not firmly believe that licensed plumbers may not also be competent plumbers? I mean, how can you have both? sheech, I'd much rather have a competent plumber than a licensed plumber, wouldn't you?

I like to use this phrase:

"Have a qualified, licensed and competent plumbing contractor properly correct!"

Joshua Hardesty · #8 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino

The pic shows new pvc joined to old pvc. All the fittings and couplers used are standard, so a "proper repair" wouldn't be difficult at all.

That appears to be new PVC joined with old galvanized pipe. Still not a hard fix though.

Jerry Peck · #9 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

Jerry P, you appear to not firmly believe that licensed plumbers may not also be competent plumbers? I mean, how can you have both? sheech, I'd much rather have a competent plumber than a licensed plumber, wouldn't you?

Jerry M.,

Thus the use of, and the need for, the word "and".

imported_John Smith · #10 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 06:34 PM

How 'bout these traps.

Jerry Peck · #11 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

I like to use this phrase:

"Have a qualified, licensed and competent plumbing contractor properly correct!"

Scott,

Taken at their core meaning (legally speaking) "qualified" = "licensed" = "qualified".

Technically, if they are "licensed", they are therefor also "qualified", and, the only way they are "qualified" is if they are "licensed".

Using the word "competent" adds new context to the "qualified/licensed" aspect.

One can be "qualified" and "licensed" and not be "competent", and, one can be "competent" and not be "licensed" or "qualified".

Thus, only one of those two equal meaning words needs to be used, that being "licensed".

Thus, saying "licensed and competent" also means "qualified and competent" which also means the same as "qualified, licensed and competent" ... except that one could think that "qualified and competent" could mean 'but not licensed' - which *could* be true if licensing is not present in your area.

Saying "licensed and competent" rolls that all together in the shortest way possible.

That states: 1) they are licensed; and 2) they know WTF they are doing too!

And that they *do it* that way.

Brian Thomas · #12 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Hardesty

That appears to be new PVC joined with old galvanized pipe. Still not a hard fix though.

You are correct. It is galvanized pipe and pvc

Patrick Martinez · #13 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 10:59 PM

Jerry P,

nicely put! After looking at this assembly, I wonder, if the need to cable or jet this drain, how is it to be done??? There is no clean out, there are more than 135deg bends without a clean-out present. Not to mention, I really don't believe the system was engineered to have nor require a ten inch water column to maintain the trap seal. Needless to say, tying in to the old Durham system in this fashion is sorry! Someone making a claim as either licensed, competent or otherwise is a gross mis-statement. I hope the previous homeowner was not the suspect plumber, however, you do find many cases like this when the homeowner tries their hand at plumbing. Rip it out, re-establish the vent and tie in the trap and vent accordingly.

Ted Menelly · #14 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 11:04 PM

Jerry P

Do you get bad headaches now and then ??????????

Check your quote below and you will see what I mean!!!!!!!!!!!

Taken at their core meaning (legally speaking) "qualified" = "licensed" = "qualified".

Technically, if they are "licensed", they are therefor also "qualified", and, the only way they are "qualified" is if they are "licensed".

Using the word "competent" adds new context to the "qualified/licensed" aspect.

One can be "qualified" and "licensed" and not be "competent", and, one can be "competent" and not be "licensed" or "qualified".

Thus, only one of those two equal meaning words needs to be used, that being "licensed".

Thus, saying "licensed and competent" also means "qualified and competent" which also means the same as "qualified, licensed and competent" ... except that one could think that "qualified and competent" could mean 'but not licensed' - which *could* be true if licensing is not present in your area.

Saying "licensed and competent" rolls that all together in the shortest way possible.

That states: 1) they are licensed; and 2) they know WTF they are doing too!

And that they *do it* that way.

Brian Thomas · #15 (**permalink**) 08-30-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Martinez

Jerry P,

nicely put! After looking at this assembly, I wonder, if the need to cable or jet this drain, how is it to be done??? There is no clean out, there are more than 135deg bends without a clean-out present. Not to mention, I really don't believe the system was engineered to have nor require a ten inch water column to maintain the trap seal. Needless to say, tying in to the old Durham system in this fashion is sorry! Someone making a claim as either licensed, competent or otherwise is a gross mis-statement. I hope the previous homeowner was not the suspect plumber, however, you do find many cases like this when the homeowner tries their hand at plumbing. Rip it out, re-establish the vent and tie in the trap and vent accordingly.

I have no idea how long it was like this or whether the previous homeowner was responsible for this. However, unless it didnt work, most people wouldnt question it. We all know its not a correct set up but for the average homeowner or handyman, if it works then there is no problem.

I know I didnt think twice about it until I started studying to be an inspector. As long as it drained fine, I didnt care. I knew right away that water going uphill was a bad idea but it didnt pose a problem, so Ive never done anything about it.

Which I presume is exactly how most homeowners would handle this situation when an inspector points something like this out. Most will do nothing as long as it doesnt pose a problem. Of course we must write this up so were protected but after that, its up to the client who will most likely shove our report in a drawer never to look at it again!

Jerry Peck · #16 (**permalink**) 08-30-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Do you get bad headaches now and then ??????????

Are you saying I was sleep walking ... er ... sleep typing??

Ted Menelly · #17 (**permalink**) 08-30-2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Are you saying I was sleep walking ... er ... sleep typing??

Thats kind of what it looked like. A hard day of thinking and the head could not stop turning and the thoughts kept on thinking.