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Thread: EBPHI Survey

  1. #1
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    Default EBPHI Survey

    Did anyone else get this? No info as to who these folks are other than their name, and what they are doing with the info?
    Examination Board of Professional Home Inspectors, an independent, nonprofit organization. EBPHI

    I told them that there query for info was less than satisfactory!
    Dear Home Inspector:
    As an experienced home inspector, your opinions about the home inspection profession are valuable.

    We are conducting a short online survey about the home inspection profession, and your response would be appreciated. Completing the survey will take only 10 minutes of your time.

    Here is a link to the survey:
    https://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?...2bM_2f8Q_3d_3d
    This link is uniquely tied to this survey and your email address--do NOT forward this message.

    Thanks for your participation!

    This survey is conducted by the Examination Board of Professional Home Inspectors, an independent, nonprofit organization.

    Please note: If you do not wish to receive further survey emails from us, please click the link below, and you will be automatically removed from our mailing list.
    https://www.surveymonkey.com/optout....2bM_2f8Q_3d_3d


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    NHIE Practice Exam
    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    EBPHI produces the National Home Inspector Exam (NHIE). It is used by 19 States for their licensing exam and by ASHI and AII for their membership exam.

    It is a survey of the profession that will help EBPHI with future exams and projects that some of their clients are looking at.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 03-31-2008 at 03:09 PM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Hi,

    If you are concerned about the profession, fill it out and send it in; it won't cost you anything except a few minutes of your time.

    Who knows, you may even get a letter at some future point asking you if you'd like to participate in putting together a new version of the NHIE. If that happens, and you say yes and get picked, you'll get to hole up with a bunch of home inspectors and put together another iteration of the NHIE.

    It would probably be very informative to be involved in that process and see how it actually works, versus listening to the wild assumptions about organizational conspiracies and such from Harvey Pussfart and other critics of the NHIE.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike


  4. #4
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    ASHI Exam (aka EBPHI).

    Delete as SPAM.....
    Yes Joe, ASHI does use the NHIE for their membership exam. So does AII and FABI.

    NAHI also allows it for their membership exam as does your organization and that would be INACHI if I'm not mistaken.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Personally, I thought the survey questions where well thought out and certainly may prove beneficial. Frankly I have no clue as to some folks hostility regarding the EBPHI?

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  6. #6
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    I found it rather strange that these folks would send out an survey with no introduction as to who it was or what it would be used for! How dumb is that?

    I sent them back the survey with my comments about lack of introduction and so forth. As such it was treated exactly as spam. I imagine, considering the lack of info many people likely dumbed it.

    Thanks for the answers.

    cheers,

    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  7. #7
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    I have no clue as to some folks hostility regarding the EBPHI?
    I think for a few it's because they have a beef with ASHI. For most it's a fear-based reaction. They simply are afraid they can't pass the test . . .

    Aaron


  8. #8
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    I found it rather strange that these folks would send out an survey with no introduction as to who it was or what it would be used for! How dumb is that?

    I sent them back the survey with my comments about lack of introduction and so forth. As such it was treated exactly as spam. I imagine, considering the lack of info many people likely dumbed it.

    Thanks for the answers.

    cheers,
    Many surveys do not tell you the reason for it or give an introduction. It is done in this manner so that the response will be one that it not researched and most likely an honest opinion or answer to the question.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  9. #9
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Raymond,

    With respect, you've been in the business since 1991; have you been in a coma or were you kidnapped and held off the planet by aliens since 1999? EBPHI has been around for nearly 9 years. I don't understand how anyone, who is an experienced inspector in this profession and actively interacts with other home inspectors couldn't know who EBPHI is. Didn't you recently quit the soap opera? Hell, the NHIE and the EBPHI are practically daily fodder for the foaming mouths over there, how could you miss it?

    Well, never mind, you've missed a good chance to give back to the profession a little bit.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike


  10. #10
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Michael

    I live north of the 49th parallel, we don't have time to deal with trivial matters state side, we have our own teething problems up here with associations. In this case ignorance is bliss.

    Give back to the profession? Thats strange I know what I have given back to the profession since 1991 and continue to give back.

    Thanks,

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 04-01-2008 at 11:27 AM.
    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  11. #11
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    Yes,

    NACHI does recognize the ASHI Exam as a qualifier for NACHI Membership.
    What ASHI exam? Are you calling the NHIE an ASHI exam?

    Calling the NHIE an ASHI exam is like calling Housemaster franchisees Pillar to Post guys. Joe, I'd always thought you were smarter than that.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike


  12. #12
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P. O'Handley View Post
    Joe, I'd always thought you were smarter than that.

    Mike,

    Now that is one thing we can agree on.

    I used to think Joe was smarter than that too, but I've been reading what he posts in defense of InterNACHI here for some time ...

    You'll get to know Joe better than you thought.

    And wonder how a guy as smart as him could hold those beliefs and opinions.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Hi,

    Well, I'm no expert at that stuff, but I think you're a little out of date. Perhaps you should look at some more current records. Pay attention to who's listed as the "current" owner of the mark and who filed for the new stylized logo and marks in 2005.

    OT - OF!!!

    M.

    Word Mark EBPHI NATIONAL HOME INSPECTOR EXAMINATIONGoods and ServicesIC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Preparing, administering, and scoring of standardized tests, namely, the administration of a national examination for professional home inspectors. FIRST USE: 20040901. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040901Mark Drawing Code(3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERSDesign Search Code02.01.02 - Men depicted as shadows or silhouettes of men; Silhouettes of men
    02.03.02 - Silhouettes of women; Women depicted as shadows or silhouettes of women
    02.05.02 - Children depicted in silhouettes or profiles of children; Silhouettes of children
    02.05.05 - Boys; Children, boy(s)
    02.07.03 - Groups, males and females
    02.07.04 - Families (adults and children); Groups, adults and children, including family groups
    07.01.04 - Detached house
    07.01.06 - Other houses
    07.01.25 - Greenhouses
    26.01.04 - Circles with two breaks or divided in the middleSerial Number78612095Filing DateApril 19, 2005Current Filing Basis1AOriginal Filing Basis1APublished for OppositionOctober 10, 2006Registration Number3188756Registration DateDecember 26, 2006Owner(REGISTRANT) Examination Board of Professional Home Inspectors, Inc. CORPORATION ILLINOIS 800 E. Northwest Highway Suite 700 Palatine ILLINOIS 60074Attorney of RecordMelissa A. VallonePrior Registrations2551987;2608326;2619101DisclaimerNO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "EXAMINATION" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWNType of MarkSERVICE MARKRegisterPRINCIPAL-2(F)-IN PARTLive/Dead IndicatorLIVEDistinctiveness Limitation Statementas to "NATIONAL HOME INSPECTOR EXAMINATION"

    Last edited by Michael P. O'Handley; 04-07-2008 at 07:13 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Hi,

    Well EBPHI has been incorporated as a separate non-profit entity. It's a public record. If you're going to say that ASHI, which loaned EBPHI the money to get started and develop the NHIE, is profiting from the NHIE, than you might as well say that Nick Gromicko, your imperious leader, actually owns interNACHI and is making a profit off it; but you won't, will you?

    I'd say that you can't prove that ASHI is profiting off the NHIE any more than I can prove who's actually pocketing all of the money being paid in by interNACHI's members, so why persist? Are you bitter? Did you apply for a place on the EBPHI board and got turned down? Why be Gromicko's slavish toady and constantly attack everything ASHI? Aren't your knees and jaw muscles tired yet?

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike

    Last edited by Michael P. O'Handley; 04-07-2008 at 07:21 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Do you like your role as flunky mouthpiece?

    You state that the NHIE will always be the ASHI exam until ASHI accepts the NACHI exam. To date, more than 18,000 inspectors have taken the NHIE - that's about double the number of folks that are allegedly interNACHI members.

    Why would ASHI ever accept passage of a test that's not legally defensible and psychometrically valid for membership when they have the choice of the NHIE and the NAHI CRI exams, both psychometrically valid and legally defensible exams? That's like asking a college to accept a 6th grade final exam as sufficient to meet the requirements for a 4-year degree. That isn't even logical; thus the reason that 18,000 inspectors have taken the NHIE.

    I guess Jerry's right. You're not as smart as you look. Need some Chapstick?

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike

    Last edited by Michael P. O'Handley; 04-07-2008 at 07:24 AM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Hi Joe,

    I haven't. Don't need to. It wasn't required here and I never applied to be an ASHI member before I left ASHI. I haven't taken the NAHI CRI exam either; but that wasn't required here either. Next year, if the NHIE or the NAHI CRI exam are required here in Washington State for licensing under the new law that was just passed I'll take it. I doubt that they'll accept the interNACHI entrance exam here though - unless it's reworked and made psychometrically valid and is considered legally defensible.

    However, I should probably point out that I've got the Army's 5-month long 18C (SF Engineer Sergeant) course under my belt and, like you, I'm the product of the franchise system where I was required to undergo a lot of training by the franchiser - 140 hours - which included going out and doing inspections on actual houses with instructors. I was also required by the franchiser to take and pass a pretty tough exam, but I don't know if Housemaster makes it's franchisees take an exam. Do they? Also, like you, I come from a construction background and used to build homes. Even with all of that though, I found out at my very first inspection that I didn't know what I didn't know and it was a long time after I got into this business before I felt like I really knew what I was doing. One thing I can honestly say though, is whenever anyone has called me to ask me whether I'm licensed and certified, I've honestly answered, "What certification? There is no real certification process in place in this state and if anyone says there is they are lying to you and I can prove it."

    What's that got to do with this thread? Just because I haven't taken the NHIE doesn't mean that I don't respect the work that EBPHI has done. 18,000+ men and women, with that test in mind, have gone out and taken plenty of extra training, have spent countless hours studying what they need to know to pass it, and that alone has helped to raise the overall level of expertise in this profession more than anything else that's been done in the past ten years. EBPHI has a right to be proud of what they've managed to accomplish. They certainly don't deserve to be denigrated just because ASHI loaned them the money to get started.

    Shouldn't you get a new bustier and pumps for your next date with Nick?

    OT - OF!!!

    M.

    Last edited by Michael P. O'Handley; 04-02-2008 at 08:52 AM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    How is the NHIE Unaffiliated with ASHI?

    Why did ASHI Accept the NHIE over other Alternatives when they abandoned their Own Exam?


    Hmmmm????
    Joe, as you are aware the information you posted to support your post on the ownership of the Trademarks is old, outdated and no longer valid, most likely why you posted it in the first place. It reflects the time when ASHI did own the rights to EBPHI. This has never been hidden and is even stated on the EBPHI website under the history of the exam.

    As Mike showed you, all of that changed in 2005 when EBPHI become completely independent and self sufficient of any third party influence. In fact the NHIE is the only home inspector exam that can say this. All other home inspector exams are influenced by membership organizations, and this is why the NHIE is in the majority of licensed states across the country.

    You ask why ASHI accepted the NHIE over other alternatives? Could be that their were no other exams that met their needs at that time.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  18. #18
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    Mike,

    Examination Statistics
    Since 9/20/2006,
    Fourty-Two Thousand Seven Hundred and Ninety-Two people have taken and finished InterNACHI's Online Inspector Examination.

    Seventeen thousand and twenty-nine of them passed (about 40&#37,

    and twenty-five thousand seven hundred and sixty-three failed (about 60%).

    There are also eight thousand one hundred and seventy-two exams that were never finished.

    Yeah, I figured it might be something like that.

    How many of those taking that test had done any training to get into the home inspection profession before they took the test? You don't know, do you?

    How many of them didn't know anything about home inspection or construction, had never had any training in the subject, and shouldn't have even been taking any exam to get into this business in the first place? You don't know, do you? All you've got is a failing score with no data to compare it to.

    How many of those that passed were retakes that were retaken immediately or within a day or two, by the same persons, after they'd done a little bit of studying? You see, if your statistics are to be accurate, since it's an unprocotored exam, you need to reflect in those statistics all of the retakes that were done immediately or within a specified time period - say a day or two.

    How many of those who passed sat there with a home inspection text open on the desk or had someone there to help them answer the questions? That's one you'll never know, will you?

    For the past four years, I've taught a 32-hour introduction to the home inspection profession course for realtors, appraisers, investors, property managers, and an occasional wannabe home inspector at a local community college. This past fall, before any of them had ever had a single class to try and understand what it is that we actually do, I had all 26 of my students go to the interNACHI site and take the vaunted interNACHI entrance exam as their first homework assignment. They were told not to crack even one of their texts before taking it and were to take it one time, cold turkey, without any help, in order to see how they fared.

    Now, to interNACHI's credit, all 26 of my students took it and none of them passed it. So, if they'd really been trying to get into the home inspection business, the test would have prevented 26 people, who had no business trying to do home inspection, from getting into interNACHI....once. I say once, because to interNACHI's discredit I think that most of them, after having taken it once, probably would have passed it on the second attempt, after getting a feel for how it was structured.

    19 of them scored between 76 and 79 correct answers when, according to the website, they only needed 80 to pass. All except one of them said that they'd felt confident, after taking it one time, that they could have passed it if they'd had one of their texts open on the desk, had someone else sitting there helping them, or did a little reading about the business before taking it again.

    IACHI gets a kudos for not just accepting anyone as a client before cashing their checks. However, that test is a long way from a test of even barely adequate competency or so many folks without a clue wouldn't have come so close to passing it.

    I say that because the student who got the highest score - a 79 - is a property manager who'd once worked for a roofer in college. The next highest score was a middle-aged woman who works for a house cleaning service and was taking the course as part of the real estate license course. She said she'd gotten 78 correct answers. The next highest score was a 22 year old single-lady who was learning as much as she could about the real estate process before trying to buy a home - she got a 77. Sixteen of the students scored a 76, five of them 75, one got a 73, and one got a 58.

    I think the fact that interNACHI has an entrance test is a good thing. What I think is bad about it is that interNACHI hawks it as if passing it means something, which it really doesn't. Many of the people who pass that test and get into this business are exactly like all of those that join the other associations, the ones that the interNACHI folks say have joined "diploma mills;" which is to say they are inexperienced and don't have any training to be home inspectors. Just like those who join another association by paying a fee and not taking a real test - like here in Washington - many are still doing inspections on homes completely unprepared and without any experience whatsoever.

    Yeah, I know that before a lot of folks get into this business they do a lot of research and most attend some kind of training before they kick off their business, but unless you've captured those numbers and compared them to those who have absolutely no training the numbers you are throwing around are really meaningless. They certainly don't prevent unqualified persons from getting into the business, because, as you are fond of pointing out, they can join one of the associations instead of signing up as one of your lord's clients. Their choices are limited, though, because two of the other associations will require that they go through some training and take tests before they can even join and the other won't even acknowledge them as an experienced inspector until they've got at least 250 inspections under the belts and passed the NHIE. I wonder which one that is? One thing I know is; it isn't the public relations firm that calls it's clients "certified" inspectors the minute they fork over a check, regardless of experience.

    Could it be that you are so against the NHIE because so many people who do a little bit of research on the internet will look beyond the alleged "certification" awarded to inexperienced people that are clients of your buddy's public relations firm to see whether the person they're thinking about hiring has passed the NHIE or the NAHI CRI exam? Hmmm?

    So, after all of that, EBPHI does serve a purpose after all; in at least 19 states when an inspector claims to be a "certified" inspector, consumers are able to say, "Yeah, way kewl Dude, I'm happy for you; now what's your state license number again?

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike

    Last edited by Michael P. O'Handley; 04-07-2008 at 07:35 AM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Mike,

    Examination Statistics
    Since 9/20/2006,
    Fourty-Two Thousand Seven Hundred and Ninety-Two people have taken and finished InterNACHI's Online Inspector Examination.

    Seventeen thousand and twenty-nine of them passed (about 40%),

    and twenty-five thousand seven hundred and sixty-three failed (about 60%).

    There are also eight thousand one hundred and seventy-two exams that were never finished.
    How many children and how many pets took the test?

    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  20. #20
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    The information may be old but it is valid. That you can not dispute.

    Call it or rename it anything you like. It is still the ASHI Exam....
    Heh, heh,

    Exactly the response I expected. I gotta admit, you've been beautifully programmed. I sure hope you're not doing any EW work.

    OT - OF!!!

    M.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    The information may be old but it is valid. That you can not dispute.

    Call it or rename it anything you like. It is still the ASHI Exam....
    Joe, again you are spot on! Yes, ASHI does use the NHIE for one of their membership exams, along with all of the other home inspector organizations to one degree or the other.

    Yes, that old information is valid for that period of time. But if it was still valid today, would it not still be published by the USPTO. If you can show current proof that the EBPHI is owned and controlled by ASHI please do so. I'm sure many would want to see hard written proof.

    Certain home inspectors continue to promote misinformation about EBPHI and the National Home Inspector Examination. These falsehoods stem from long-standing, acrimonious competition among home inspector membership organizations. These home inspectors insist that the NHIE is not "independent," that it is "controlled" by the American Society of Home Inspectors (ASHI). This statement is false.

    EBPHI is an independent, not-for-profit organization, incorporated in the State of Illinois. It has IRS 501(c)6 status, but is not a membership organization.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 04-03-2008 at 07:20 AM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  22. #22
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    If you can show current proof that the EBPHI is owned and controlled by ASHI please do so. I'm sure many would want to see hard written proof.
    Scott:

    I cannot, just this moment, show you conclusive proof that the Republican party is owned and controlled by Big Business, but I know it to be true. And, so do you . . .

    Aaron


  23. #23

    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    How many children and how many pets took the test?

    To quote Michael P. O'Handley:

    "Now, to interNACHI's credit, all 26 of my students took it and none of them passed it.

    Give up Ray!


  24. #24
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Marcel you should know me well enough to know I do not give up.

    Cheers,

    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  25. #25

    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Marcel you should know me well enough to know I do not give up.

    Cheers,
    I know Ray but do you really think that choice of association's make a person a better inspector?

    Association's can assist one to be successful but to be an inspector it must be within, really!

    Cheers,


  26. #26
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    And would have been deleted if posted on your message board....
    Nah, it was just the typical response of one of Nicks sycophants; though obviously you have a bone to pick with ASHI and refuse to accept reality, there's nothing obscene or contentious there, so I wouldn't have deleted it.

    Along with the new pumps and bustier, I suggest some of that new warming K.Y. for your next date with Nicky Boy. Bend over and smile!

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike


  27. #27
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Gratton View Post
    To quote Michael P. O'Handley:

    "Now, to interNACHI's credit, all 26 of my students took it and none of them passed it.

    Give up Ray!
    A perfect example of taking something out of context. Let me guess: liberal democrat?

    OT - OF!!!

    M.


  28. #28

    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P. O'Handley View Post
    A perfect example of taking something out of context. Let me guess: liberal democrat?

    OT - OF!!!

    M.
    So wrong you are, I really dislike Liberal's!


  29. #29
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P. O'Handley View Post
    there's nothing obscene or contentious there, so I wouldn't have deleted it.

    Along with the new pumps and bustier, I suggest some of that new warming K.Y. for your next date with Nicky Boy. Bend over and smile!

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike
    Mike,

    Seems to me that you must operate on two different sets of rules: 1 - for when you are home in your living room; 2 - for when you are here in Brian's living room.

    There is no question that *YOU* would have deleted your post (which I've quoted above) had someone else made in on *YOUR* board, yet, here you are, doing what you would not allow there.

    Nick has two sets of rules, you have two sets of rules, are you and Nick really that much different?

    I realize 'your intent' is on a higher up scale than 'Nick's intent' is, but your words and actions? Take a good long look in the mirror and think about it.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 04-04-2008 at 08:25 PM. Reason: speelin'
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  30. #30
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Mike,

    Seems to me that you must operate on two different sets of rules: 1 - for when you are home in your living room; 2 - for when you are here in Brian's living room.

    There is no question that *YOU* would have deleted your post (which I've quoted above) had someone else made in on *YOUR* board, yet, here you are, doing what you would not allow there.

    Nick has two sets of rules, you have two sets of rules, are you and Nick really that much different?

    I realize 'your intent' is on a higher up scale than 'Nick's intent' is, but your words and actions? Take a good long look in the mirror and think about it.
    Fair nuff,

    Than I retract the other comments, apologize profusely for them, and suggest he simply wear the French maid's uniform.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike


  31. #31
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    One has clearly lost the debate when the need Arises to Lower one's self to personal attacks as a retort......
    Oh, do you mean like calling an inspector "the worlds most unethical inspector" by name, and in the same sentence telling him to go bribe a realtor and repair roofs on homes he's inspected, and repeating it in such a way that it showed up as the 5th post when the man's name was googled the very next day? Do you mean that kind of attack - one that happened on your master's board, where he lied and said that he'd defeated SB 6229 when he had nothing to do with getting it defeated 'cuz ASHI WW had defeated it more than a month before he got involved?

    How about attacking repeatedly the paid ED of a rival association, and, just because she used to work for a medical supplies manufacturer, splattering her name all over the internet along with words like "scum" accompanied with double-entendre about penile implants and such? Do you mean that kind of attack - one orchestrated by your lover that happened on the interNACHI board and got them re-sued?

    Imagine if I were to, for instance, say "Joseph P. Hagarty likes little boys," or "Joseph P. Hagarty collects pedophilia," repeatedly over and over on the net. What do you think might show up whenever anyone googled your name?

    Take this thread. you know full well that what people are telling you about EBPHI is the truth, yet you persist in spreading lies about EBPHI, knowing full well that those lies will show up over and over again whenever anyone googles EBPHI.

    You and your buddies never miss a chance to dive into any discussion about ASHI, NAHI, EBPHI, or virtually anything else that competes with your boyfriend, and spread lies, because you know that those comments will end up spread all over the net within hours.

    It's not just EBPHI, it's a lot of other sites and people, including myself who you and the other cult members have targeted. So far, folks haven't stooped to your level. You pretend that you are taking the high road, but the truth is that you know full well what happens when you make such posts, and you know that some folks reading them are going to believe those lies when they come across them on the net. Therefore, one can only assume that your intent when you troll, in order to start such arguments, is malicious. That being the case, the gloves are off. Lets see how you like it when things about you show up all over the net and prospective customers start seeing them whenever they google your name.

    I hope that all of those NAHI and ASHI guys reading this will catch my drift and begin to pay you and all of your buddies over there on the soap opera back in spades. All they have to do is to start dropping certain names onto hundreds of discussion boards all over the net. It doesn't matter which board, and the posts can be completely irrevalent to those discussions. As long as they stay up there overnight, the bots will pick them up anyway, and before too long you and that whole group of sycophants, as well as your liege, will find their names associated with such very unsavory terms as "child molester," "fraud," "bribery," "conspiracy," "criminal behavior," "incompetent inspectors," etc.. Just like certain lies that you and others have repeated over and over on the soap opera, it won't matter that those things aren't true, the internet will pick them up anyway and there will be absolutely nothing that you can do to stop it. The beauty of it is that it's the same tactic that you and your buddies over there have been using against the rest of us for years, so you can't cry foul when what goes around comes around again.

    Let's see if what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike

    Last edited by Michael P. O'Handley; 04-07-2008 at 07:44 AM.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    Scott,

    We have a Licensing / Certification Law here in Pennsylvania that is currently making its way thru the Legislative process to become a formalized Licensing Law.

    One of the criticisms that remain consistent is the notion that NACHI requirements of Full Membership are not compliant with the intent of SB 1032 introduced in 1999 and enacted in 2001.

    From the PA Certification Law….

    (3) Requires that a person may not become a full member unless the person HAS PERFORMED OR PARTICIPATED IN MORE THAN 100 HOME INSPECTIONS AND has passed a recognized or accredited examination testing knowledge of the proper procedures for conducting a home inspection.

    How could the intent of the Legislation have been to reference the NHIE when it did not exist in 1999?

    Or….

    Is the NHIE the ASHI Exam?

    Inquiring Legislative minds would like to know……
    Joe, reading (3) I do not see any reference to the NHIE. I would assume that whoever wrote that would have been talking about the associations exams. I simply do not know what the intent of that statement is.

    Again to answer to your question. ASHI uses the NHIE for their membership exam. The NHIE is the National Home Inspector Exam that is owned by EBPHI and not ASHI.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  33. #33
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    Mike,

    Point out where I have suggested or personally posted anything the likes of what you have suggested.

    As what you have posted is contained in a public forum, you need to now substantiate your slanderous comments leveled towards me personally.

    Retraction and public apology needs to be forthcoming.

    I do not take your slanderous comments lightly.....

    You are advised.....
    Well, if it were, it would be libel, not slander. Slander is spoken, libel is written, but it is neither.

    You have tried to make the case that the NHIE is ASHI's test. It isn't. That's a fact and it's a fact that you tried to sully EBPHI's rep right here by trying to make the case that they are ASHI. Anyone reading this thread can see that.

    I'm just shaking in my boots.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike


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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    Scott,

    Who owned the NHIE in 1999?

    or did it not exist in 1999?
    Hi Joe,

    The NHIE was started in October 1999. ASHI owned the NHIE in 1999.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  35. #35
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    mike,
    i have compiled an email database list of all advertisers presently listed on your TIJ website. i am curious to see if they share your opinions.

    have a nice weekend.
    Ewwww,

    That must have taken a whole two seconds. I'm glad that this has been left up as long as it has; by now a whole lot of folks that are sick of the crap being spewed from the soap opera will have read it and will understand what to do next.

    Still shaking.

    OT - OF!!!

    M.

    Last edited by Michael P. O'Handley; 04-05-2008 at 03:47 PM.

  36. #36
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Blame me for starting the thread!

    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P. O'Handley View Post
    Fair nuff,

    Than I retract the other comments, apologize profusely for them, and suggest he simply wear the French maid's uniform.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike
    See? That MUCH BETTER.

    Now, don't you feel much better too?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  38. #38
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    So the NHIe WAS the ASHi Exam until ASHi transferred Ownership to the EBPHi....

    In 1999 the ASHI Exam was the "NHIE"....

    thank you for the clarification...........
    Well, actually ASHI did away with their old exam in September of 1999 and started using the NHIE.

    So, ASHI did use their old exam and also the NHIE as their exam in 1999.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Scott,
    Correct me if I'm wrong....but, the old ASHI exam that was once owned by EBPHI and served as the original NHIE has been completely abandoned and restructured by a psychometric evaluation using content specialists at least 3 times since 1999.
    Correct?
    That is what sets the NHIE exam apart from all others and why at least 19 states use the exam for licensing.
    Oh, don't forget that fact that you cannot take the exam online from your own PC as other "CERTIFIED" inspectors can.
    The NHIE actually requires the exam to be taken in a controlled and proctored test area.
    What a concept!

    Last edited by Tom Edwards; 04-06-2008 at 08:31 PM. Reason: additional information and spelling

  40. #40
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Nice. Goes back, deletes all of his comments, and then tries to pretend that he wasn't referring to the current version of the NHIE despite the fact that he originally referred to it in the present tense.

    Typical Joey Puckerbottom obfuscation.

    I hope to hell he isn't being used anywhere as an expert witness; he's got a real problem with truthfulness. Pay attention, folks, one day he may be testifying for the other side as an expert witness. When that happens, you'll want to challenge his credibility by bringing this up.

    Guess his mama never taught him that trying to twist the truth is exactly the same as lying. What a girlie man! I'm out of here. No point in dueling with an unarmed opponent who's devoid of honor.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike


  41. #41
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P. O'Handley View Post
    Nice. Goes back, deletes all of his comments, and then tries to pretend that he wasn't referring to the current version of the NHIE despite the fact that he originally referred to it in the present tense.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike
    One reason to always use the "quote" feature, some folks have a history of doing this on all of the board they participate in. Problem is once it is quoted, it still shows up.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  42. #42
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Edwards View Post
    Scott,
    Correct me if I'm wrong....but, the old ASHI exam that was once owned by EBPHI and served as the original NHIE has been completely abandoned and restructured by a psychometric evaluation using content specialists at least 3 times since 1999.
    Correct?
    NO, that is not correct. EBPHI never owned the ASHI exam. For the first year many of the old ASHI exam questions were used to get the exam off the ground. All of those questions went through the same scientific process and screening as is used today. By 2001 all of the questions on the NHIE were original and specific only to the NHIE. All old ASHI exam questions had been removed by that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Edwards View Post
    That is what sets the NHIE exam apart from all others and why at least 19 states use the exam for licensing.
    Oh, don't forget that fact that you cannot take the exam online from your own PC as other "CERTIFIED" inspectors can.
    The NHIE actually requires the exam to be taken in a controlled and proctored test area.
    What a concept!
    Yes, that is correct.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    Really?
    Yep, just as I posted above. The NHIE was really created this way.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P. O'Handley View Post
    Nice. Goes back, deletes all of his comments, and then tries to pretend that he wasn't referring to the current version of the NHIE despite the fact that he originally referred to it in the present tense.

    Typical Joey Puckerbottom obfuscation.

    I hope to hell he isn't being used anywhere as an expert witness; he's got a real problem with truthfulness. Pay attention, folks, one day he may be testifying for the other side as an expert witness. When that happens, you'll want to challenge his credibility by bringing this up.

    Guess his mama never taught him that trying to twist the truth is exactly the same as lying. What a girlie man! I'm out of here. No point in dueling with an unarmed opponent who's devoid of honor.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike
    I'm sorry. I don't check this site as often as many might.
    Are you referring to my question to Scott P regarding the NHIE and to me personally?
    I hope not. I can't imagine anyone would become that distorted in their reading.
    If so, please reassert yourself.


  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Edwards View Post
    I'm sorry. I don't check this site as often as many might.
    Are you referring to my question to Scott P regarding the NHIE and to me personally?
    I hope not. I can't imagine anyone would become that distorted in their reading.
    If so, please reassert yourself.
    Tom, he is talking about Joe Hagarty

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Tom, he is talking about Joe Hagarty
    Thanks for the clarity, Scott.
    I was counting to three.


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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Joe, You posted this same old information on 4/1/08.

    Someone is a couple tacos short of a combo plate.

    JF


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    Joe, You posted this same old information on 4/1/08.

    Someone is a couple tacos short of a combo plate.

    JF
    Joe, nobody has ever said that ASHI did not start EBPHI. It is public information that has never been hidden. I have even told you this on this discussion board thread. Back in 1997 I did not see any other membership organization offering or helping to fund the hundreds of thousands of dollars needed to establish an independent organization and exam for the benefit of the entire profession. ASHI did this knowing that they would never receive any money for it and that after the exam was selfsufficiant ownership would be transferred and they would no longer have anyting to do with it.

    Yes, for some reason Joe keeps posting old information about EBPHI. He does not want to admit or recognize that everything he is posting is old information that does not reflect the current ownership of EBPHI, or even the correct office address for EBPHI.

    Anyone can look up the current Trademark ownership and the address of EBPHI and see that what he is posting is not true. Joe has even done this on his associations website in an effort to spread false and misleading information. I have no idea of what Joe is trying to do or why is is trying to mislead folks, he apparently has a motive or an agenda he is trying to push.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 04-11-2008 at 07:22 AM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
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    Someone is a couple tacos short of a combo plate.
    Too funny!

    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    No Motive or Agenda.
    Merely publishing factual information for others to review when conducting their own research.

    Are you suggesting that I have Misrepresented (Changed) Factual Information?

    What part of what I posted is not valid (at the time it was registered and/or publicly posted)?
    By not posting CURRENT information, *YOU ARE IMPLYING* (at least you appear to be trying to imply) that the outdated information is still current.

    Your actions in posting old and outdated information without posting the current and up-to-date information reeks of "Misrepresentation" and "Fraud", showing a lack of "Ethics" in your conduct, plus, the out-of-date you keep posting is "not valid".

    Joe, you can try to defend that as you might, but your actions show the very essence of lack of ethics ... just what everyone says about Internachiorwhateveritiscalledtoday, which is just the opposite (it seems) of what your intent is.

    While I "have no dog in this fight", you are aligning yourself with Michael Vick and his dogs.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  50. #50
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    Jerry,
    How dare you malign poor Mr. Vick that way? I don't think you should include him with these parties, he isn't nearly as bad.
    JF


  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Edwards View Post
    I'm sorry. I don't check this site as often as many might.
    Are you referring to my question to Scott P regarding the NHIE and to me personally?
    I hope not. I can't imagine anyone would become that distorted in their reading.
    If so, please reassert yourself.
    No, I was referring to Joseph P. Hagarty's habit of deleting his own comments, to try and conceal where he's made misstatements, and then twisting others' responses to try and reflect whatever misrepresentation he's trying to push; in this case, his assertion that the NHIE is an ASHI exam when it hasn't been owned by ASHI in years.

    He started this by implying, using a present-tense comment, that the NHIE is an ASHI exam by responding to one of Scott's comments about how IACHI accepts the NHIE for entry requirements by stating that it does accept the ASHI exam, which is clearly a swipe, in the present tense, at the NHIE, and he is trying to impune its objectiveness by implying that it's authored by ASHI when it is not.

    He tried to back that up with outdated trademark information, but when the truth was revealed, he tried to twist the thread to make it look like he was talking about the origin of the NHIE when it was very clear in his first misrepresented post that he was speaking in the present tense.

    Joe is just trying to twist facts to fit his version of events in order to continue with his own little vendetta againts ASHI.

    I should think that after Herner vs. Housemaster, a Housemaster guy would be trying not to get his name associated with distortions. He's also setting up for appeal any case where he's ever testified as an expert witness for either side. Twisting the truth here is no different than twisting it under oath; it's just as damaging either way.

    I guess pushing his own agenda , whatever it is, is more important to him than maintaining his own credibility.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike

    Last edited by Michael P. O'Handley; 04-26-2008 at 09:32 AM.

  52. #52
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Sigh,

    After about two weeks, I get an email telling me that Joseph P. Haggarty has responded to this thread. Guess I hadn't turned off the subcription on this thread like I had the others, even though I thought I had.

    Anyway, it looks like, instead of responding, Joseph P. Haggarty has gone back into the thread to delete all of his skewed commentary - every word. What's up, Joe? Have a trial coming up and you don't want an opposing counsel to learn that it looks like Joseph P. Haggarty sometimes has a problem being objective and is willing to tweak the facts a little bit here and there to make them apply to his agenda or fit today's version of what he wants to present as fact?

    Do you really believe that none of us has copied and archived the thread, including your comments, for later use? I've got an entire flash drive folder labeled "Nonsense" dedicated to nothing but archiving just such threads for future use. Some of those distorted "facts" make great copy for future articles.

    What a shame.

    Gotta go turn off this subscription thingy now.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike


  53. #53
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Bump!


  54. #54
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Gentlemen, in all due respect this thread is truly a waste of both time and space. Who cares about internachi or folks berating a certified national home inspector exam. Baying at the moon may prove more productive.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

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    Jerry because we can and its obviously a topic of interest, just look at the hits!

    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  56. #56
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P. O'Handley View Post
    I guess pushing his own agenda , whatever it is, is more important to him than maintaining his own credibility.
    This is how most of the home inspection world describes an obscure and rarely visited place in cyberspace some call TIJ.


  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Hempelstern View Post
    This is how most of the home inspection world describes an obscure and rarely visited place in cyberspace some call TIJ.
    Owned and opperated (controlled) by Mike.

    To promote his own agenda????



  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P. O'Handley View Post
    Yeah, I figured it might be something like that.

    How many of those taking that test had done any training to get into the home inspection profession before they took the test? You don't know, do you?

    How many of them didn't know anything about home inspection or construction, had never had any training in the subject, and shouldn't have even been taking any exam to get into this business in the first place? You don't know, do you? All you've got is a failing score with no data to compare it to.

    How many of those that passed were retakes that were retaken immediately or within a day or two, by the same persons, after they'd done a little bit of studying? You see, if your statistics are to be accurate, since it's an unprocotored exam, you need to reflect in those statistics all of the retakes that were done immediately or within a specified time period - say a day or two.

    How many of those who passed sat there with a home inspection text open on the desk or had someone there to help them answer the questions? That's one you'll never know, will you?

    For the past four years, I've taught a 32-hour introduction to the home inspection profession course for realtors, appraisers, investors, property managers, and an occasional wannabe home inspector at a local community college. This past fall, before any of them had ever had a single class to try and understand what it is that we actually do, I had all 26 of my students go to the interNACHI site and take the vaunted interNACHI entrance exam as their first homework assignment. They were told not to crack even one of their texts before taking it and were to take it one time, cold turkey, without any help, in order to see how they fared.

    Now, to interNACHI's credit, all 26 of my students took it and none of them passed it. So, if they'd really been trying to get into the home inspection business, the test would have prevented 26 people, who had no business trying to do home inspection, from getting into interNACHI....once. I say once, because to interNACHI's discredit I think that most of them, after having taken it once, probably would have passed it on the second attempt, after getting a feel for how it was structured.

    19 of them scored between 76 and 79 correct answers when, according to the website, they only needed 80 to pass. All except one of them said that they'd felt confident, after taking it one time, that they could have passed it if they'd had one of their texts open on the desk, had someone else sitting there helping them, or did a little reading about the business before taking it again.

    IACHI gets a kudos for not just accepting anyone as a client before cashing their checks. However, that test is a long way from a test of even barely adequate competency or so many folks without a clue wouldn't have come so close to passing it.

    I say that because the student who got the highest score - a 79 - is a property manager who'd once worked for a roofer in college. The next highest score was a middle-aged woman who works for a house cleaning service and was taking the course as part of the real estate license course. She said she'd gotten 78 correct answers. The next highest score was a 22 year old single-lady who was learning as much as she could about the real estate process before trying to buy a home - she got a 77. Sixteen of the students scored a 76, five of them 75, one got a 73, and one got a 58.

    I think the fact that interNACHI has an entrance test is a good thing. What I think is bad about it is that interNACHI hawks it as if passing it means something, which it really doesn't. Many of the people who pass that test and get into this business are exactly like all of those that join the other associations, the ones that the interNACHI folks say have joined "diploma mills;" which is to say they are inexperienced and don't have any training to be home inspectors. Just like those who join another association by paying a fee and not taking a real test - like here in Washington - many are still doing inspections on homes completely unprepared and without any experience whatsoever.

    Yeah, I know that before a lot of folks get into this business they do a lot of research and most attend some kind of training before they kick off their business, but unless you've captured those numbers and compared them to those who have absolutely no training the numbers you are throwing around are really meaningless. They certainly don't prevent unqualified persons from getting into the business, because, as you are fond of pointing out, they can join one of the associations instead of signing up as one of your lord's clients. Their choices are limited, though, because two of the other associations will require that they go through some training and take tests before they can even join and the other won't even acknowledge them as an experienced inspector until they've got at least 250 inspections under the belts and passed the NHIE. I wonder which one that is? One thing I know is; it isn't the public relations firm that calls it's clients "certified" inspectors the minute they fork over a check, regardless of experience.

    Could it be that you are so against the NHIE because so many people who do a little bit of research on the internet will look beyond the alleged "certification" awarded to inexperienced people that are clients of your buddy's public relations firm to see whether the person they're thinking about hiring has passed the NHIE or the NAHI CRI exam? Hmmm?

    So, after all of that, EBPHI does serve a purpose after all; in at least 19 states when an inspector claims to be a "certified" inspector, consumers are able to say, "Yeah, way kewl Dude, I'm happy for you; now what's your state license number again?

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike
    That internachi online exam was a joke...I took it several times in preparations for the NHIE and each time scored well above 90%. As mike pointed out though, we have no way of telling exactly how many of those people that failed the exam had any kind of training whatsoever and how many were just taking it for fun. Those stats that joseph put up are very misleading. Anyone that has had any kind of training at all would be able to pass that exam easily.


  59. #59
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    Default Re: EBPHI Survey

    Now I know why my dog and cat and budgie scored so high. Who'da thought!

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