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  1. #1
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    Default Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Anyone have a date or any historical information on when pool bonding (i.e. equipotential bonding grid) was first required? 5' radius.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    Anyone have a date or any historical information on when pool bonding (i.e. equipotential bonding grid) was first required? 5' radius.
    Swimming pools first appeared in the NEC in the 1962 edition and was 3 pages long.

    680-7. Grounding
    - (a) All metallic conduit, piping systems, pool reinforcing steel, light fixtures, and the like, shall be bonded together and grounded to a common ground. The metal parts of ladders, diving boards, and their support, shall be grounded.
    - (b) No pool equipment shall be grounded to an external grounding electrode that is not common to the pool ground (deck box or transformer enclosure).
    - (c) An unbroken No. 14 AWG, or larger, insulated copper wire shall be provided for a grounding conductor from the deck box to the distribution panel ground.
    - (d) Metallic raceways shall not be depended upon for grounding. Where exposed to pool water and in other corrosive areas such as in pump houses or adjacent to water treating and other equipment, the grounding of the non-current carrying parts shall be by means of an insulated copper conductor sized in accordance with Section 250-95.

    The 1965 NEC was similar, expanded with some changes, and the grounding/bonding conductor went to a No. 8 AWG. There were other changes as well.

    In the 1968 NEC the grounding/bonding changed to bonding and that is when the 5 feet horizontally of the pool water first came in.

    You could say that pool bonding first came into the NEC in 1962, and that bonding as we know it today came into the NEC in 1968, albeit in a much simpler form. Equipotential bonding has continued to improve and change throughout the various code cycles since.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Swimming pools first appeared in the NEC in the 1962 edition and was 3 pages long.

    680-7. Grounding
    - (a) All metallic conduit, piping systems, pool reinforcing steel, light fixtures, and the like, shall be bonded together and grounded to a common ground. The metal parts of ladders, diving boards, and their support, shall be grounded.
    - (b) No pool equipment shall be grounded to an external grounding electrode that is not common to the pool ground (deck box or transformer enclosure).
    - (c) An unbroken No. 14 AWG, or larger, insulated copper wire shall be provided for a grounding conductor from the deck box to the distribution panel ground.
    - (d) Metallic raceways shall not be depended upon for grounding. Where exposed to pool water and in other corrosive areas such as in pump houses or adjacent to water treating and other equipment, the grounding of the non-current carrying parts shall be by means of an insulated copper conductor sized in accordance with Section 250-95.

    The 1965 NEC was similar, expanded with some changes, and the grounding/bonding conductor went to a No. 8 AWG. There were other changes as well.

    In the 1968 NEC the grounding/bonding changed to bonding and that is when the 5 feet horizontally of the pool water first came in.

    You could say that pool bonding first came into the NEC in 1962, and that bonding as we know it today came into the NEC in 1968, albeit in a much simpler form. Equipotential bonding has continued to improve and change throughout the various code cycles since.
    Thanks Jerry, saved my bacon. I had some agent call me an idiot (literally) yesterday because he went to building and safety in Burbank to double check my report, and they told him pool bonding was not necessary until just a year ago. Late 80's pool.

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    Default Re: Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    Thanks Jerry, saved my bacon. I had some agent call me an idiot (literally) yesterday because he went to building and safety in Burbank to double check my report, and they told him pool bonding was not necessary until just a year ago. Late 80's pool.
    Marc,

    They could be correct ... they may still have been using the 1959 NEC.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Marc,

    They could be correct ... they may still have been using the 1959 NEC.
    That could be judging by the way in which he was talking to me.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    That could be judging by the way in which he was talking to me.

    I hope, and I think you may have, judging on your posts in the past, that you called the agent an idiot for even questioning you as to pool equip bonding.

    Last year. The official should be fired. I am sure that the bonding situation, no matter how belated, came into affect a long long time ago.

    A little edit here


    Don't you just love agents. OOps, sorry, I know you love your wife. Talk about trying to keep your tongue around the wife, ay.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    Thanks Jerry, saved my bacon. I had some agent call me an idiot (literally) yesterday because he went to building and safety in Burbank to double check my report, and they told him pool bonding was not necessary until just a year ago. Late 80's pool.
    Does it really matter when it was required? Nope not one itty bitty bit!

    Just report what you find! Pool ___ is not bonded. For increased safety in needs to be bonded. Have a qualified electrician bond it!

    Write it like this and there is no need to even get into a discussion with folks about when something was required by code or not.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Does it really matter when it was required? Nope not one itty bitty bit!

    Just report what you find! Pool ___ is not bonded. For increased safety in needs to be bonded. Have a qualified electrician bond it!

    Write it like this and there is no need to even get into a discussion with folks about when something was required by code or not.
    You're right...And as you stated, is exactly how it was written. Simply as a precautionary measure.
    I just have to work around some of these people, and they talk. If it wasn't for that, I'd let it go, but their negative talk about me can and may result in a loss of money, unfortunately.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    You're right...And as you stated, is exactly how it was written. Simply as a precautionary measure.
    I just have to work around some of these people, and they talk. If it wasn't for that, I'd let it go, but their negative talk about me can and may result in a loss of money, unfortunately.
    And so the story goes in the land of the realtors hold the purse strings. Dont ya just love it.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Bump to old thread...

    Anyone have pics of a repair to a deficient equipotential system? I can only imagine it's a lot of work... I to run into this quite often.

    Sadly, the *repairs* and responses I've received over the years include

    • It's fine, it's been that way for a long time, doesn't seem to be hurting anyone now.
    • The pool guy said he is going to insert a ground rod at pool equipment and wire the pumps/heater/filter to it
    • The pool guy said that it's OK to use the equipment ground for the circulation equipment as alternative to equipotential bond.

    A sad one is where the bare wire has been snapped off at grade, can't be found etc... and literally you'd be tearing up the deck, exposing the steel in several locations etc.

    Haven't ever snapped pic of such... probably a big job.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Pool Bonding-how far back does it go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Spargo View Post
    Bump to old thread...

    Anyone have pics of a repair to a deficient equipotential system? I can only imagine it's a lot of work... I to run into this quite often.

    Sadly, the *repairs* and responses I've received over the years include

    • It's fine, it's been that way for a long time, doesn't seem to be hurting anyone now.
    • The pool guy said he is going to insert a ground rod at pool equipment and wire the pumps/heater/filter to it
    • The pool guy said that it's OK to use the equipment ground for the circulation equipment as alternative to equipotential bond.

    A sad one is where the bare wire has been snapped off at grade, can't be found etc... and literally you'd be tearing up the deck, exposing the steel in several locations etc.

    Haven't ever snapped pic of such... probably a big job.
    Hey Tim, we have and here's a couple of examples of costs. The last one we did was $11,000 w/permits, engineering etc... the AHJ wanted to see connection of all steel etc, in accordance to today's min stds + new drains. It was a big job and I think i still have some pics. (Ground Rod is totally unacceptable BTW)
    We're getting ready to do one here pretty shortly in Encino if you want to come by and take a look when they're diggin in. That one is a spool w/ no hardscape and only 5500. LMK
    Hey I responded to that text you sent me, sorry so late. If you're interested in that software let me know, I'll see if I can set up a time for us to meet the designer guy.

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