Thread: Selling our home: inspection is sunday

Originally Posted by David Bell

As a small business owner, there are only 2 kinds of days. Days you're making money and days you're spending money. The given name of the day means nothing.

If you really believe that, you are missing out on alot of life, probably because you are working all the time or think way too much about money!

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Well this thread took a fun turn...

I work Monday - Friday. Weekends are for the family and Church. It has worked well for my family and I for the past 15 years.

Scott
I commend you on your choice of just working five days a week. My family is gone and I do not believe in the church. My god is with me at all times. Wherever I may be. More on the aspect of the true followers of Christ. I respect those that need the church. I do not do inspections before noon on Sunday. I made the choice to honor my clients. You have a family and you should give them some time. All inspectors that do Inspections on Sunday are not all Newbies. They all have there own reasons why they do the things they do. I know some very good inspectors that do inspections on Sundays and I know some inspectors that have been in this Profession for a long time that should not be doing inspections at all. You should never assume because they do things different from you that they are not a good inspector. I do not know anything about the inspector that did the inspection on Ryans home. Hopefully he was a conscientious inspector. And did his job as he was paid to do.
Bruce

Originally Posted by Benjamin Thompson

If you really believe that, you are missing out on alot of life, probably because you are working all the time or think way too much about money!

It's called being flexible and accommodating for you client which apparently you are neither. Gheeze....I can hardly see you since you are so high up on your pedestal.

Originally Posted by Benjamin Thompson

If you really believe that, you are missing out on alot of life, probably because you are working all the time or think way too much about money!

Neither actually, service work knows no boundries. Furnaces, rooftop units and the like break down every day. I am on call 24/7 and do my best to remedy peoples problems quickly. When my kids were younger it was a completly different situation, I was a 7 to 3:30 guy.

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

matt

where did i say i only do inspections on sundays???.
it was suggested that if an inspector works sundays, he is a newbie, but i disagreed. 1000 inspections and i'm a newbie. poppycock

i sometimes do 6-7 inspections a week, but read my lips,ONLY ONE A DAY. and that is my choice. i refer others out.

with the housing market slow these days--i still got my 200 in--and the year isn't over
read what was written not what you want it to say

good day


cvf

The way I read it, you have done over 1K inspections and, work on Sundays.
On occasion, I'll work on a Sunday, if it is the only time available to the client.
I try to make it a rare occurrence as it interferes with my Sunday morning golf group!
Choosing the days you work has nothing to do with the amount of experience you have.
And speaking of golf, 11:15 tee time today!

Originally Posted by Bruce Adams

Scott
I commend you on your choice of just working five days a week. My family is gone and I do not believe in the church. My god is with me at all times. Wherever I may be. More on the aspect of the true followers of Christ. I respect those that need the church. I do not do inspections before noon on Sunday. I made the choice to honor my clients. You have a family and you should give them some time. All inspectors that do Inspections on Sunday are not all Newbies. They all have there own reasons why they do the things they do. I know some very good inspectors that do inspections on Sundays and I know some inspectors that have been in this Profession for a long time that should not be doing inspections at all. You should never assume because they do things different from you that they are not a good inspector. I do not know anything about the inspector that did the inspection on Ryans home. Hopefully he was a conscientious inspector. And did his job as he was paid to do.
Bruce

Hey, whatever works for you is what you need to do.

I don't have a problem with folks that work on Sundays. Not working on weekends is the choice I made when I started my home inspection business. Prior to home inspections for about 16 years I worked around 70 hours a week in the corporate retail world, I have worked my share of Sundays.

Who knows, when our last child is out of the house I might decide to work a Saturday or two.

I hear folks talk all the time about being flexible and that they are meeting their clients needs by working weekends. That is great that you are willing to do this, but is it really necessary?

I have a few inspections under my belt and I think I might have lost a handful by not working on a Saturday. I have never had a request to work on Sunday, that might have something to do with being in the bible belt. My logic about not working weekends is that as a profession we can decide the hours we want to serve our clients. It is my opinion that the client(buyer) can take the time needed for an inspection if they are able to buy a home. They take the time to look for the home; they take the time to go to the mortgage lender (they are not open on weekends);and they take the time to go to the closing that will be held during the week as well.

It is all about ones priorities in life and in business.

My wife is a school teacher and our son is in 2nd grade. I prefer to leave the weekends for us since we all spend a lot of time apart during the week. During the summer when they are both off and during busier times, I'll work Saturday mornings. I've worked Sundays but don't like and have done so under special circumstances.

There's no right or wrong schedule. If whatever you do works for you and your family, that's what matters.

My reasoning for the inspector being possibly a newbie is that a seasoned Professional Home Inspector wouldn't schedule a home inspection at a "occupied" home on a Sunday. I think that doing so is a lack of respect for that homeowner in that it's a day of faith and for time with one's family. Plain and simple.

If you choose to work on Sunday or the weekend that is one's personal choice but when it intrudes on someone's else time you should reconsider.

Its amazing when you tell your clients that you work Mon.-Fri. and that you keep your weekends open for family time and to attend church, all of a sudden they find time to show up during the week to an appointment.

JMHO

rick

Sunday is not a day of faith for everyone. I do a lot of inspections for an Israeli client and I don't think Sunday means a whole lot to him. I also guess that the people who don't inspect on Sunday don't go to Lowe's or the grocery store on Sunday either since those heathens should not be at work either. The nerve of some people who are trying to make a living to work on Sunday. Give me a break!

Going to Lowes or the grocery store on Sunday doesn't intrude on someone's else home or privacy either Mr. Duffin. Give me a break!
You mentioned the word "heathen" not me.

There isn't a whole lot of convenience in selling a house. Maybe needing to take pictures or deer mounts down, putting some property in storage to reduce the appearance of clutter, leaving the house so potential buyers can come traipse through for a showing or open house or the home inspection.

If somebody wants to sell their house, they have to be flexible and make temporary changes up to and including going elsewhere for a few hours on a Sunday, especially in this market. Hell, Sundays are typically the only days where open houses take place around here.

Nick,

Funny you mention the deer heads.

I overheard an agent the other day while doing a presale inspection telling the homeowners that she would not list a home that had "things" with eyes hanging on the wall.

Oh, and by the way this was on a Monday.

rick

HA HA. Funny stuff Rick. At the home I inspected yesterday, the owner came to the door holding a rifle. Mmmmmmmmm........interesting. He had a couple deer mounts in his basement storage area because his agent told him they needed to come down to sell the house. Luckily he wasn't intending to use the gun on me .

Originally Posted by James Duffin

Sunday is not a day of faith for everyone. I do a lot of inspections for an Israeli client and I don't think Sunday means a whole lot to him. I also guess that the people who don't inspect on Sunday don't go to Lowe's or the grocery store on Sunday either since those heathens should not be at work either. The nerve of some people who are trying to make a living to work on Sunday. Give me a break!

As a member of the Jewish community, I find your comment about your client as bing disrespectful and of your opinion and probably not of his.

Maybe you should question him about his ideas of what Sunday means to him and not be so assuming of his.

rick

Originally Posted by James Duffin

It's called being flexible and accommodating for you client which apparently you are neither. Gheeze....I can hardly see you since you are so high up on your pedestal.

What?? I can't hear you down there

Just to put another angle on it and another perspective on it ...

I had worked myself down to doing only 1 or 2 inspections per week, not working Saturdays or Sundays, and frequently taking Fridays off as well.

I was down to probably 75-100 inspections per year my last few years before I retired, and the last year was down to around 70 as I recall.

Yes, being "down to" fewer inspections was intentional, I made more money that way.

I am probably going to catch some flack for this but here goes.

I was born and raised a Catholic. Enough about that,

There is no disrespect to a home owner doing an inspection on Sunday. They have to accept the appointment for an inspection in their home on Sunday. If they don't want an inspection on Sunday in their home then they would not accept the time frame.

Number 2. God works on Sundays. If he does not who the heck are all those folks talking to when they are praying or singing in church or home.

Working on Sundays has nothing to do with anything. The reason Sunday is set aside for worship, the lord, faith etc etc....Is because folks use to have to slave for centuries on Sundays under the hands of their masters or conquerors. It was talked about and written into the bible for those purposes.

Most Realtors work on Sundays. Tens of millions of folks in the US work on Sundays and most of them have some kind of faith and religion.

Most of the masters work worshipers and God fairing people.....for themselves. Their slaves worked seven days a week in most cases and anytime day or night for their masters while their masters dressed up and showed their faith and worship for the Lord....driven their by their slaves while other slaves were at home cleaning the house and grounds and whipping up dinner.

The folks at The Home Depot and Lowe's and any other store or restaurant for the most part have faith and religion of some kind. Putting gas in your car on Sunday on the way to church? The traffic cop at the corner directing traffic when one is getting out of church? Ambulance picking ones sorry but up off the street when there is an accident. Almost everyone of those folks are Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Jewish, Hindu's...millions and millions of them.

Not working on Sunday has absolutely nothing to do with anything with the exception of personal choice.

Sunday being a day of faith and not working? Your personal choice. I suggest you go no where and do nothing on Sunday what so ever. Don't go and try to get some nice wood to flavor the meat on the barbie. Don't go up to the corner and pick up some milk. If you do you are dealing with folks breaking their faiths rules to serve you. Without them you would be getting nothing what so ever on Sunday.

Like I said. I was born, raised and I am Catholic. This whole day off and do nothing on Sunday....Where or what would Sunday be without all those TV folks and athletes playing all their games and those studio folks playing the movies or the folks working at the movies to sell you your ticket and popcorn.

Sunday a day of faith for ?????????? Whom????? Just a matter of convenience when one wants it to be a convenience. Going out on that boat on Sunday? Hope you don't brake down. Everyone may be doing nothing on Sunday because of their faith. You may just have to tie a rope around your neck and paddle the boat back to shore.

Excuses for convenience.

And this is just my opinion.

Well said Ted

In my 20 plus years inspecting I have worked several Sundays. It was only for a special client, under special circumstances.

My reason for not working on Sundays has to do with my choices, and not some religious fundamentals. I do attend church probably 49 weeks a year. We usually get out around noon, then go to lunch with family and/or friends. Then my wife and I spend the rest of the day together doing whatever we feel like.

For a couple years I took off Fridays too, to have some ME time and hang out with my wife.

Just because I choose not to work on Sundays does not mean I feel that no one should work on Sundays. Bible belt or not - I didn't work on Sundays when I lived in CA.

New house inspection results.....EEKkk!

Had the inspection for our potential new home yesterday and the results were astounding to say the least.


Please keep in mind that this house is priced at 190k. Not located in a big city or urban area, avg home prices in area are likely around 130k if I remember the last report I read.

Issues found...
1. Plumbing - inspector recommended reputable licensed plubmer be brought in for following issues: Water pressure went to basically nothing when 2 water fixtures were operated at the same time, 1 leaking drain, 1 sump pump takes water from washing machine and runs it to the lawn, 1 sump pump was unplugged/not functional?, no hot water - water heater not operational? and is 18 years old, water supply issue limited inspection of plumbing

2. electrical - Inspector recommended reputable licensed electrican come in to resolve following issues: outlets in kitchen near sink not GFCI, ones that are GFCI in home are wired improperly/won't reset/don't work. Outlets on exterior of home are not GFCI. Inproper use of multiple extension cords to power dishwasher or stove, improper wiring of lights and smoke detctors (hanging by wires), 1 multi-tap in breaker box

3. garage door opener does not have safety stop sensor. will not pass FHA apprisal?

4. disposal does not work

5. evidence of current or past raccon or other larger critter activity in crawl space

6. microwave door loose.

7. right side of french door does not open

8. some windows don't open properly...

9. stair rails leading to basement are: too short, spindles spaced too far for proper saftey, and entire railing is loose.

THere were a few other minor things but these are the things I remember...i'm at work...so don't have the report in front of me.

We are basically requesting that plumbing and electrical are delt with by licensed reputable electrican and plumber, fix garage door, fix stair rail, fix french doors, fix disposal, i think 1 or 2 others as well....

Crazy we wouldn't have thought this many things would be found......guess thats exactly why you guys exist
My question to you guys is now who is responsbile for hiring the electrical and plumbing contractors...the seller or us???

Ryan,
Question is who will you trust? Those working for you or someone else?

By contract negotiations you can be the one to select the contractors to preform the corrections. Who pays for the corrections will also be negotiable. That is fun part of making the deal.

If the seller makes the corrections I would recommend that you have those items reinspected by contractors (of your choice) licensed in each field and have the seller pay the cost for the those inspections of the work preformed.

Negotiate a personal guarantee (if warranty doesn't cover then seller is on hook) by the seller in addition to a separate warranty.

Your state may have the builder on the hook for repairs for the first year. That does not mean that the job will be done to your satisfaction or if the builder will be in business in a year. Many states have tries to protect the buyers but do not rely on the state t protect you. Rely on your self for creating your protection.

Originally Posted by Ryan Vega

New house inspection results.....EEKkk!

Had the inspection for our potential new home yesterday and the results were astounding to say the least.

Crazy we wouldn't have thought this many things would be found......

Now, wouldn't it have been easier and, as it turns out most likely cheaper, to have just hired your own inspector and discovered these relatively common issues in the first place so you could have addressed them then? You would have avoided the last minute wrangling and costs that will now surely happen.

Unfortunately we HI's experience this all the time. Buyers or owners think we "charge to much" and in the end spend much more than our fee to correct problems or reduce the price of the house by far more than our fee just to "get the deal done". Then let's not forget the added, unnecessary emotional stress involved.

Ya can lead a horse to water....

Originally Posted by Bob Knauff

Now, wouldn't it have been easier and, as it turns out most likely cheaper, to have just hired your own inspector and discovered these relatively common issues in the first place so you could have addressed them then? You would have avoided the last minute wrangling and costs that will now surely happen.

Unfortunately we HI's experience this all the time. Buyers or owners think we "charge to much" and in the end spend much more than our fee to correct problems or reduce the price of the house by far more than our fee just to "get the deal done". Then let's not forget the added, unnecessary emotional stress involved.

Ya can lead a horse to water....

Bob if you read more carefully these inspection results were on our potential new house...not on the house we are selling. I am actually grateful of the inspection that it found these things and happy we paid the money..please read carefully if you are going to be condensending

Ryan, if this new home is 20 years old or so, you didn't say, those are fairly typical items you listed. It sounds like there has been considerable neglect, but we trust the roof is good and the foundation is sound? Where is your realtor? He/she should do the negotiating with the seller's agent. Ensure that the seller does not do the electrical or plumbing repairs himself, You want a contractor to do them, and you want documents and receipts. Sometimes, all you need is a cost estimate and that amount comes off the price.

Some of those items are required now but were not required in an older home. You may have to bite the bullet on the smaller fixes, but get the expensive safety issues taken care of.

If this is a FSBO, get a notary public to help you with documents. Good luck.


If it's an older home with a sump pump in the basement, you should have the perimeter drains probed and checked by a drain company. Are the water supply pipes galvanized steel by any chance? Well water or city water?

Originally Posted by John Kogel

Ryan, if this new home is 20 years old or so, you didn't say, those are fairly typical items you listed. where is your realtor? He/she should do the negotiating with the seller's agent. Ensure that the seller does not do the repairs himself, you want a contractor to do them. sometimes, all you need is an estimate and that amount comes off the price.

So of those items are required now but were not required in an older home. You may have to bite the bullet on the smaller fixes, but get the expensive safety issues taken care of.

If this is a FSBO, get a notary public to help you with documents. Good luck.

John
The home was built in 1980. Our agent is writing up the list of repairs we are requesting the seller have done before we move on. The big things are the plumbing and electrical issues. Those are deal breakers. We are going to ask for a long list of stuff and see what they agree to do. This was a remodel and sell so the seller did a lot of the work themselves I imagine. I just emailed our agent to put the verbage in for the electrical and plumbing that we want to provide the individuals to do this work. I took Garry's suggestion very seriously, I want to make sure at the very least the electrical and plumbing folks are ones that we approve of not an unknown half witt hired by the seller at the cheapest price. We don't know if the seller has contractor friends that can try to pull a fast one..

The inspector said water lines are copper and it is on well water. The home just had a water proofing system installed in the basement over the summer. Reciepts provided to us by seller.

Ryan
I agree with Garry on the how to get the repairs you need. I have had several clients that have called me after the closing to come look at something that was supposed to have been repaired. That they had receipts for. When I looked at were either never done or done wrong. And there has been times that the person that they had the receipt from had never been to the home. Be sure to protect yourself.
It is always better to have that person doing the repairs working for you. I have always recommended to my clients to try to negotiate to have the price of the home reduced or have money put in escrow for the repairs. Get quotes from a Master Electrician and a Master Plumber that you trust. And you have the repairs made and put the paper work for those repairs in your records for when you sell the home in the future. And when the repairs are made have a third party check those repairs.
If you can not do this and the seller makes or has the repairs made. Get that Master Electrician and Master Plumber to make sure the repairs are correct. Or pay your Inspector to reinspect the things that were negotiated to be repaired, reinspected. Make sure that you do not have to deal with these things when you sell this home. Make sure at closing that you have the paperwork for the repairs and that they are in with everything else. Keep them for future reference. Keep your Inspection report with these papers. If your inspector took pictures during the inspection ask if you could buy a copy of them. I give copies of all the pictures taken at time of inspection even those that are not used in the report to my clients by e-mail.
Bruce

Ryan,
Glad you get the idea of who does the work.

Remember you are buying a 30yr old house. Be prepares to make repairs. To many people think that nothing big will pop up in the next couple of years. Some expect that the house be perfect. Some think that the seller will eat repairs. Be pragmatic not emotional in your expectations. There are reasons that the term fixer-upper was created.

You seem on the road to an informed decision.

Ryan,

"Crazy we wouldn't have thought this many things would be found......"

Everything still applies.

The house in on a well and it has flow/pressure problems when more than two fixtures are operated. Sounds like you need a well contractor or a plumber who understands wells and pressure tanks. My bet is on the pressure tank being bad. Worst case is that the well is no longer producing enough water.

I'm assuming the house is also on a septic tank...... At 30 years of age that critter needs to be pumped and inspected if it has not been done...

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

The house in on a well and it has flow/pressure problems when more than two fixtures are operated. Sounds like you need a well contractor or a plumber who understands wells and pressure tanks. My bet is on the pressure tank being bad. Worst case is that the well is no longer producing enough water.

I'm assuming the house is also on a septic tank...... At 30 years of age that critter needs to be pumped and inspected if it has not been done...

We requested the right to bring in a contractor(s) of our choice to give quotes on the water and electrical problems. If major things are found then we will talk again.

If it gets there we also plan on using some of the closing cost money, paid by seller, to get water testing and the septic tank pumped and checked out. Seller does have a reciept of septic tank inspection from July 2008. Which is ok I suppose, but we'd want an up to date inspection on it.

We'll find out today at 5pm if the seller is going to do all 11 things we asked to be completed. We asked for nearly everthing and figured we would be able to make the final call on moving forward if they choose to not fix everything we asked for, putting the power in our hands.

It was funny when talking with the agent last night she had to bring in her boss because of the number of things we were asking to be fixed. I think they wanted to scare us into asking for less so we don't "shock the seller". We basically said that a house at this price point in this area shouldn't have these issues that we didn't really care what the seller is going to think.

Then they tried using the old car sales trick
"just so you know the seller does have another offer for the house..."

I promptly replied...

"if they don't fix everything I'll personally deliever the offer /accepted to the seller/other buyer myself. we like the house, but we don't need THIS house."

Ryan,
Pressure drop on well systems are common. When you say it went to practically nothing is not real quantitative. There are things that could be wrong or in need of adjustment. Some items expensive others just the use of a screw driver. Do not expect to run two bath tubs at same time quickly. The life of living on a well is one that you will have to become accustom to. There are was to modify the system so you will obtain a constant pressure under use, check with your plumber (not cheep fix) to see if it is worth it to you.

Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

Ryan,
Pressure drop on well systems are common. When you say it went to practically nothing is not real quantitative. There are things that could be wrong or in need of adjustment. Some items expensive others just the use of a screw driver. Do not expect to run two bath tubs at same time quickly. The life of living on a well is one that you will have to become accustom to. There are was to modify the system so you will obtain a constant pressure under use, check with your plumber (not cheep fix) to see if it is worth it to you.

Take pratically nothing exactly for its face value, but to estimate the flow change, when sink 2 was turned on the pressure dropped to approx 1/5 of what it was before sink two was turned on. At which point both fixtures were basically unsuable. I lived on well water for 24 years in the past and all my family lives on well water. I've never seen a house with pressure this bad. I understand well water and city water are different, but the water supply in that house has an issue that needs corrected.

Ryan,
Bringing the broker to put pressure on you or just their way to bring you into their view of reality. Glad you seem to understand the where they are coming from. They want to have the sale go through (pay day), else they have to work longer for less money. I do not know about Indiana real estate law, but it is possible that your agent has a fiduciary duty to the seller (has to look out for the sellers interest above the buyer). Stick by your guns and take the advice from the agent/broker with a grain of salt. Just be a pain in the _ _ s buyer, make them earn their commission. Guard your interests closely. Choose your council wisely. The seller's agent will be pushing to make a deal (pay day), use that agent to your benefit. Worse case (not common) take the negations to the seller face to face. It then becomes a game like poker. Know when to hold them and know when to fold them.

Garry,
Thats basically where we are at. And we told the broker and agent last night.. "we have to look out for ourselves, because no one else is going to do that."
Their response... nothing.
They are out for the themselves and their money.

Oh we're being a pain in the ass...we think that the agent is regreting now that she is dealing with us.... but oh well.

Originally Posted by Ryan Vega

Take pratically nothing exactly for its face value, but to estimate the flow change, when sink 2 was turned on the pressure dropped to approx 1/5 of what it was before sink two was turned on. At which point both fixtures were basically unsuable. I lived on well water for 24 years in the past and all my family lives on well water. I've never seen a house with pressure this bad. I understand well water and city water are different, but the water supply in that house has an issue that needs corrected.

Ryan, I didn't notice if you said it is a 2" or 6" well. If it is a 2" well you already know you will need to have a new well (6") to be happy with your water.

The pressure drop you describe could be a bad or water logged volume tank. Easy to check. Empty the tank by turning off power to the well and running water to bucket. Measure how many gallons from full tank. Should be approx. 5 gal. for a 25 gal. volume tank. (You can get exact amount from mfg. spec sheet). Then measure air pressure with tire gage at the top of the tank (presuming it's a bladder type). The pressure should be 1-2 lbs. lower than the cut-in pressure of the switch. If there is no pressure the bladder might be broken. Pump in some air, if it doesn't hold pressure its broken.

Vern,
I am actually not sure if it is a 2 or 6 inch well. Is that determined by the visible well cap in the yard? In the yard at the home there is a small part of the well with a metal cap on it that protruds about 8 inches out of the ground. Would I go off that size or if not how would I determine 2 or 6?

Originally Posted by Ryan Vega

Vern,
I am actually not sure if it is a 2 or 6 inch well. Is that determined by the visible well cap in the yard? In the yard at the home there is a small part of the well with a metal cap on it that protruds about 8 inches out of the ground. Would I go off that size or if not how would I determine 2 or 6?

Yes, thats the casing. If it is 6" there should be a metal tag on the side of it with the depth of the well, static water level (when drilled), depth of casing, and gallons per minute. If the tag is not there you should be able to call the county and get the info from them. (Should be recorded)

Originally Posted by Vern Heiler

Yes, thats the casing. If it is 6" there should be a metal tag on the side of it with the depth of the well, static water level (when drilled), depth of casing, and gallons per minute. If the tag is not there you should be able to call the county and get the info from them. (Should be recorded)

Vern,
Thanks for that info...could prove to be very useful!
If I remember correctly the casing that was protruding the ground was not 2 inches..it was larger than that...so i'd guess its 6...but i realy don't know.
Any ideas as to what branch of the county offices I might call..or at least what might be a good first try for that info?

Originally Posted by Ryan Vega

Vern,
Thanks for that info...could prove to be very useful!
If I remember correctly the casing that was protruding the ground was not 2 inches..it was larger than that...so i'd guess its 6...but i realy don't know.
Any ideas as to what branch of the county offices I might call..or at least what might be a good first try for that info?

Try "Environmental Health" or ask for department that gives well and septic permits.