Thread: What should be expected?

We have been in our new home for 5 months and prior to purchase had the home professionally inspected. In this time we have discovered that the garbage disposal in not installed up to Wisonconsin code and that the drainage line was looped in a downward direction and is too short to loop in an upward arc. In addition, following a severe hail storm we were told by the insurance inspector, who was formerly a home inspector, that the roof was shot and that it would never have passed his inspection even prior to the storm.
The person who did our home inspection, prior to purchase claims he is "not a code inspector" and I suppose he would claim that the roof was aged (12 years) but not unacceptable.
A home purchaser makes the largest purchase of his life depending on the thoroughness and competency of the home inspector to do his job. I am disheartened

Without seeing your house it's really tough to make an accurate assessment (even though I'm sure there will be many here lining up to crucify the guy).

Is there something wrong with the function of the disposal? A missing DW drain loop should be reported on IMO but I wouldn't classify it as a major oversight.

Of course, roofs are a big deal.... this is where more details are really needed. It's 12 years old and it leaked is all we know. Neither of those surprise me. Are there installation errors that the insurance inspector pointed out? Keep in mind a home inspection isn't a pass/fail thing so if the insurance guy/former inspector said it like that I'd have to question if he really knows that much about inspections.

One thing I have learned over the years is those who make broad statements like "I can't believe the inspector didn't see that" or "That never would have passed my inspection" are often lacking the knowledge of what was in the report and what the conditions were at the time of the inspection.

Give us some pics or the verbage from the report and we can probably be of more help.

Originally Posted by Laurence Schiffman

We have been in our new home for 5 months and prior to purchase had the home professionally inspected. In this time we have discovered that the garbage disposal in not installed up to Wisonconsin code and that the drainage line was looped in a downward direction and is too short to loop in an upward arc. In addition, following a severe hail storm we were told by the insurance inspector, who was formerly a home inspector, that the roof was shot and that it would never have passed his inspection even prior to the storm.
The person who did our home inspection, prior to purchase claims he is "not a code inspector" and I suppose he would claim that the roof was aged (12 years) but not unacceptable.
A home purchaser makes the largest purchase of his life depending on the thoroughness and competency of the home inspector to do his job. I am disheartened

Hi Laurence,

I hate that you are having some problems with your home.

Well, the inspector is correct in that the typical home inspection is not a "Code" inspection. With a preexisting home it is virtually impossible to do a code inspection as you would have to inspect it to the code at the time the home was built.

What was or is the problem with the disposal?

I got lost with the drain line on one of the loops! Are you talking about the trap on the drain? Were you told that an "S" trap is installed and it needs to be a "P" trap?

As for the roof..... If it is just 12 years old and is aged, but it was not leaking and the shingles were not flying off in the wind then you need to contest what the adjuster said. You need to get an independent review of the roof and fight the insurance company if you are in the right. I do reviews like this several times a year for folks who have problems with claims on their homes.

You are lucky that Wisconsin has a home inspector licensing program and that the state has standards that inspectors are to follow. You should get a copy of those standards and if your inspector did not follow them you should file a complaint with the state.

Keep in mind that home inspectors as a norm do not "Pass" or "Fail" but rather report what they see or find.

Take some pictures and share the problems with us. Photos make it so much easier to see the problems. If the inspector was wrong, you will find that most of us will tell you so.

Refer to your contract as to limitations and conditions the inspection was conducted under.

The garbage disposal is not a major issue and as far as the roof, who is to say the hail damage didn't cause the damage and the insurance inspector is working on behalf of his employer the insurer so he is protecting their interests.

Secondly the insurer should not be second guessing the inspector because he was not there, nor has he likely seen the report, nor party to the contract you signed with the inspector.

You really need to address this issues with your inspector.

Here is a link to the Wisconsin Standard of Practice: http://legis.wisconsin.gov/rsb/code/rl/rl134.pdf


Did your home inspector take any photos of the roof during the inspection? Pictures are worth a thousand words. There was some major snowstorms in November and December, was the roof visible at the time of the inspection?

If you're referring to the dishwasher's drain line it's quite possible that there is a loop built into the back of the machine - which is out of sight for an inspector.

Hail damage - if the roof is 12 years old it's getting towards the end of its expected life anyway. The different insurance companies have varying tolerances for such damage so what is acceptable to one company may not be to another - check with your carrier.

And BTW - unless it's a G.E. unit the proper term is disposER. Disposall is a registered trademark of General Electric.

First allow me to thank everyone for replying; and then confess that my posting was made mostly out of frustration and with an inaccuracy due to the late hour it was posted. To correct and clarify my comments: The leak was not from the garbage disposer but rather backwash into the dish washer that on one occasion caused the dishwasher to leak. The problem is/was that there is neither a counter top vent installed (code in Wisconsin) nor was the line from the dish washer looped in the correct orientation. The former was not reported, the latter was insufficiently notated as "the line is looped" with no mention that the loop was facing downward. The roof has not leaked to my knowledge and, to be fair, the insurance inspector's comments could be a gross exaggeration of the condition he found it in. Granted it did survive this winter and a recent hail storm; and they may have been enough to put the roof into the "shot" category; but I would have expected a "heads up" warning from the home inspector that the shingles were nearing the end of their useable life.
I purchased a "home warranty" that might have taken care of the dishwasher issue but they denied coverage due to incorrect installation. I have home insurance to pay for the roof. My problem is with a situation where a home buyer, in my case from out of State, has to rely on a realtor's recommendation to find a home inspector. In turn the home inspector has to rely on referrals, often from realtors, that may well depend on the sale of the home going through.

In NC the criteria for a home inspection is that a system (like a roof) has to be performing its intended function and not be in need of immediate repair taking into consideration normal wear and tear.

To me that means that a 12 year old roof that is not damaged and not leaking is OK as far as the inspection goes. The same goes for a 20 year old roof if it is not damaged or leaking. I try to give the buyer a "ballpark" estimate as to how old a roof is and typical life expectancy of the type roof installed but usually the age estimate is a range of years. You can not normally expect to get a new roof when you buy a house.

Home Inspeciton is like any other profession. There are poor inspectors, okay inspectors, and those who are really exceptional, Same goes for doctors, lawyers, teachers, contractors, etc. The dishwasher drain, although deemed minor by some, can have really bad consequences. The roof, well, that falls into the "eye of the beholder" category. If the inspector doesn't know when the roof was installed, the age and expected useful life are at best an estimate based upon appearances.

I do take umbrage with the inspector's report language concerning the dishwasher drain. If there was no explanation or direction concerning corrections and why it was necessary, then I don't believe he or she created a very complete report. Wouldn't be a "check-list" report would it?

Sorry about your problems. I wish there was a way to guarantee better performance next time.

Most home buyers have neither the expertise or experience of professional home inspectors. If the only information I was given was that the roof was covered with "30 year" shingles, and the house is 12 years old, and my house in Ohio passed inspection and was doing well with 15+ year old shingles, I would have hoped the roofing would survive another few years - - - at least. I understand that 30 years is an unrealistic expectation; and if 12 years is nearing the end of life expectancy, I would expect the home inspector to mention that.

The report I received was a computer generated multi-page checklist which looked very professional and allowed for additional comments. Every profession has excellent practitioners, and those who don't meet that standard. My inspector is a very nice guy who promptly responded to my inquiry about the dishwasher issue (this was before the hail storm necessitated a roof inspection), expressed regret that I would have to pay to rectify a problem he should have noted, and agreed that we all learn from our mistakes. I still wish that he had done a better job, but I hope he will in the future and I don't ask more of any human being.

The problem is there is no way to tell when a roof is going to fail no matter how old it is. The odds of faulure goes up as the roof gets older but unlike an A/C unit it does just stop working one day.

I replaced my own 26 year roof last year that was covered with 20 year shingles. It was replaced becuae it looked bad...not because it was leaking. I looked at the shingles when they were removed and the back and body of the shingle was perfect....only the top coating was worn and stained. Just becuase a roof leaked after a hail storm does not mean it was not installed properly.

Reports are only as good as the inspector using them.

Curious to know whether you as the purchaser was in attendance for the inspection?

There still seems to be some confusion over whether the roof leaked, before or after the hail storm. It never leaked. It passed inspection about 5 months ago, we had a hail storm and signs popped up on neighbors lawns that roof replacements were being done. We filed an insurance claim, largely because we had no way to determine if the information the contractors were providing was accurate. The insurance inspector told us the roof was shot, felt it was pretty much in that condition before the hail storm, and was surprised that we were not given that information during the home inspection. I can understand that no one can predict the day a roof might begin leaking, but I think trained professional can tell you when the roof looks badly worn and could relatively soon be due for replacement.
Unfortunately my wife and I had to be in Ohio when the inspection on the Wisconsin home was being conducted. We spoke to the inspector prior to him seeing the house and specifically asked that he phone to discuss any issues that would not be obvious from his report.

If your inspector told you the roof was 12 years old, was in typical condition for 12 year old roof, and should last 20 years based on the manufactures warranty information then that is all he could do without a crystal ball.

The word "shot" is not a word a competent inspector uses to describe a roof. I would ask the insurance inspector to say what he meant in roofing terms. But I get the impression that the subject is now moot since you are getting a new roof.

Originally Posted by Laurence Schiffman

We have been in our new home for 5 months and prior to purchase had the home professionally inspected. In this time we have discovered that the garbage disposal in not installed up to Wisonconsin code and that the drainage line was looped in a downward direction and is too short to loop in an upward arc. In addition, following a severe hail storm we were told by the insurance inspector, who was formerly a home inspector, that the roof was shot and that it would never have passed his inspection even prior to the storm.
The person who did our home inspection, prior to purchase claims he is "not a code inspector" and I suppose he would claim that the roof was aged (12 years) but not unacceptable.
A home purchaser makes the largest purchase of his life depending on the thoroughness and competency of the home inspector to do his job. I am disheartened

I question why this insurance inspector could not make it as a Home Inspector on his own? It is way too easy and done way to often to blame the last man out.

How many HI's out there used the terminology that a home "passed" inspection. Not to many I would bet.

Just my opinion,
rick

The improper and unsecured high loop for the dishwasher drain is something a lot of guys miss. Don't know why, maybe they don't have enough plumbing experience, too lazy to look under the sink who knows.
12 year old roof, I tell people to start saving money for a new one.
Did the HI do a bad job, probably not. Did he do a good, thorough, meaningful inspection, probably not. I harp on guys all the time that the inspection is meaningless if the client can't understand the information being provided.
It's one of my big gripes with checkbox, layman don't have a clue what all those little boxes and checks mean.
An HI is not a Code inspection, however various things should be looked at properly.