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  1. #1
    Theresa Morton's Avatar
    Theresa Morton Guest

    Default Wind mitigation nightmare.

    I have recently purchased a new home in plantation fl. I got insurance through citizens. They came back 1 month later and tripled the premium. I told because of the rebuild cost and because I was getting no wind mitigation credits. I have a geodesic dome home,and because 10% of
    the home has a flat roof I get no credit for the roof shape at all.How ridiculous is that? next the open protection , I have all impact resistant windows and doors and I have skylights in my roof. Because the contractor replaced the lenses in the frames with polycarbonate glass ( the product information was provided to the inspector, but he would not sign off on it because the intire entire window was not replaced. Hence I get no credit
    for any shutters or inpact resistant material what so ever. I don't know what else to do, Is this true you can not replace just the glass in the skylights you lso have to replace the frame as well. These frame are built right into the roof. I need answers
    .

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    Last edited by Theresa Morton; 08-23-2011 at 07:24 PM.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Wind mitigation nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theresa Morton View Post
    I have recently purchased a new home in plantation fl. I got insurance through citizens. They came back 1 month later and tripled the premium. I told because of the rebuild cost and because I was getting no wind mitigation credits. I have a geodesic dome home,and because 10% of
    the home has a flat roof I get no credit for the roof shape at all.How ridiculous is that? next the open protection , I have all impact resistant windows and doors and I have skylights in my roof. Because the contractor replaced the lenses in the frames with polycarbonate glass ( the product information was provided to the inspector, but he would not sign off on it because the intire entire window was not replaced. Hence I get no credit
    for any shutters or inpact resistant material what so ever. I don't know what else to do, Is this true you can not replace just the glass in the skylights you lso have to replace the frame as well. These frame are built right into the roof. I need answers
    .
    Your questions are more complex than you think, and your problem highlights just a tiny bit of the fallacy of the Florida Wind Mitigation program here in Florida.

    Here is an example of what I am referring to:
    - Let's say that you have a 1970s to 1990s house which has hurricane straps, the straps go up and over the truss, there is one nail through the end of the strap which is bent over the truss and two nails in the other side of the strap. Yes, that is all which was required back then.
    - Now let's presume you have a 2000s house which has long straps and many nails, all in accordance with the engineering to resist the uplift loads and all based on engineering, these new strap do not need to, and in fact *should not* be bent over the top of the truss. These straps are not considered "straps" by the wind mitigation form designers (insurance people, not engineers or building officials) because they do not go up and over the top of the trusses, they are considered "clips".

    Okay, one house has *3* nails at each end of each truss, the other house has (I'll just use this as an example) 7 nails at each end of each truss. And lets presume that the nails are all the same (they likely area all 16d common nails), and 16d common nails have a pullout (withdrawal) load rating of 140 pounds (actually varies by wood species, some less, some maybe more) and a shear value of 150 pounds (rounding them off).

    The *3* nails in the "strap" provide about 450 pounds of shear or pullout resistance.

    The *7* nails in the "clip" provide about 1050 pounds of shear or pullout resistance.

    The "strap" gives a BETTER rating on the Florida Wind Mitigation form than the "clip" does, even though the "clip" is really a strap and has actually been engineered, and has more nails because of that engineering.

    Okay, so, back to your problem: The Florida wind mitigation form makes no sense, do not try to make sense out of it. Sad but true.

    Now to your question regarding:
    - "I have all impact resistant windows and doors and I have skylights in my roof. Because the contractor replaced the lenses in the frames with polycarbonate glass ( the product information was provided to the inspector, but he would not sign off on it because the intire entire window was not replaced."

    I am going to presume that you are meaning that the skylights *also* were impact rated, and, yes, replacing the glazing with ANYTHING DIFFERENT and that impact rating goes away. Even replacing the glazing with the the same type and that rating will likely go away as "the assembly" is impact rated, not just the glazing, because the glazing has to be installed just like it was at the factory to preserve that rating.

    If your skylights were not impact rated and the glazing was replaced, well, nothing was 'lost' as it was not there to begin with.

    This part is confusing, though:
    - "Hence I get no credit for any shutters or inpact resistant material what so ever"

    If you have shutters, and you have permit information showing that they were permitted and indeed offer protection from wind borne debris, then you should be able to get credit for the shutters. My guess is that either you do not have shutters or the shutters are not for wind borne debris, that they are older shutters which have no engineering or substantiation for what they will withstand. Just my take from your description.

    I doubt that was the answers or information you were looking for as these answer and information basically just says: 'Yeah, you are stuck.'

    You MIGHT benefit from having a structural engineer go over the wind mitigation items and do some engineering calculations and they MIGHT be able to advise you what is feasible to improve and at what cost. Of course, though, there is a real cost associated with having the engineer do that, and then the cost of doing what they design, and the real possibility that they can only address part of the wind mitigation items sufficiently to have any effect.

    Just curious, I lived and inspected in South Florida for 20 years, where, roughly - no need to give your address here, is your house located? I know of two 'space ship' styled houses down there, one in Davie near Orange Ave and one in Sunrise by I-595 - those are not geodesic domes, but I've seen a couple of geodesic dome homes down there, just can't remember where.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    Theresa Morton's Avatar
    Theresa Morton Guest

    Default Re: Wind mitigation nightmare.

    Thank you for your insight Jerry. To answer your question my home is in Plantation acres. I did get a clip credit, that was the only credit I got from
    the insurance company and they did not want to give me that. I actually submitted the building plans to the inspection company and finally recieved it. As far as the shutters go they are all brand new and all the doors and windows, with the exception of the skylights are all breand new and
    have passed inspection with the City of Plantation. But I was told by the
    inspector because of the skylights I get no credit for any of the shutters
    or impact resistant doors or windows.


  4. #4
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    Orlando, FL
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    Default Re: Wind mitigation nightmare.

    The Florida wind mitigation form makes no sense, do not try to make sense out of it. Sad but true.
    .

    Worth repeating.


  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Wind mitigation nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theresa Morton View Post
    As far as the shutters go they are all brand new and all the doors and windows, with the exception of the skylights are all breand new and have passed inspection with the City of Plantation. But I was told by the inspector because of the skylights I get no credit for any of the shutters or impact resistant doors or windows.
    Correct.

    You would need ALL glazed openings (skylights are glazed openings) to be impact protected, which would mean shutters for the skylights or impact resistant skylights.

    If you cannot replace the skylights with impact resistant skylights, and you do not want to remove the skylights ... you will be between the proverbial 'rock and a hard place'.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    FL, TX
    Posts
    137

    Default Re: Wind mitigation nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theresa Morton View Post
    I have recently purchased a new home in plantation fl. I got insurance through citizens. They came back 1 month later and tripled the premium. I told because of the rebuild cost and because I was getting no wind mitigation credits. I have a geodesic dome home,and because 10% of
    the home has a flat roof I get no credit for the roof shape at all.How ridiculous is that? next the open protection , I have all impact resistant windows and doors and I have skylights in my roof. Because the contractor replaced the lenses in the frames with polycarbonate glass ( the product information was provided to the inspector, but he would not sign off on it because the intire entire window was not replaced. Hence I get no credit
    for any shutters or inpact resistant material what so ever. I don't know what else to do, Is this true you can not replace just the glass in the skylights you lso have to replace the frame as well. These frame are built right into the roof. I need answers
    .
    Normally replacing a skylight means removing the entire frame from the "curb" and installing the entire new light and counter flashing. Remember that in order to be hurrcane mitigated the curb must be built to withstand the hurricane as well, the number of nails, brackets and hangers ued and where does make a difference.

    If the contractor sold you "hurricane mitigated windows" and has NOT brought them to the code that allows you to get the dedcution then he has failed to deliver per the requirement. I m unsure as to what your contract was. If the contractor purchased and entire skylight and removed part and installed it in your old frame then he did not do the job…as it is a complete engineered assembly.

    If the purchased acrylic skylight material and told you it was hurricane rated ,the material might be but the assembly might not be. Then it is dependant upon what your intent was… had you metioned your insurance to him at all? if so he knew that he could nto get it bought off for insurance by replacing glass only.

    If teh contractor has an engineer he works with, have him get an engineer stamped drawing..that might work but generally Citizens wants ONLY Dade county approved assemblies in order to discount. It could be engineered and accepted but unlikely as the insurance dummies dont want to have to think.

    So it looks like it depends on what the contractor was contracted to do and the intent of the upgrade at contracting the work. Litigation? maybe. Depends on what you have in writing and what you were told and what you told him you wanted. He is the professional, and you get the benefit of doubt overall in such a case as you are NOT professional.

    Hope this helps.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Orlando, FL
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    Default Re: Wind mitigation nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Jeanis View Post
    Hope this helps.


    Dirk, this thread is 3 years old so I doubt the OP is still reading it.


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