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Thread: Help

  1. #1
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Help

    A contractor told a painter to spray killz all inside my panel. Once I figure out how... I'll post pics.

    Inspection Referral

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Nazareth, Pa 18064
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    Default Re: Help

    If you are talking about the electrical panel, I would fire the contractor.
    Just what you need, paint covering the contacts.
    You would then require a new panel box.


  3. #3
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasha Harris View Post
    A contractor told a painter to spray killz all inside my panel. Once I figure out how... I'll post pics.
    As Phil noted, once a panel has paint in it then it needs to be replaced. It says so on the panel label on most brands.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  4. #4
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    Should all the wire be repulled also? This is a bad mess. This is the contractor the insurance company sent to my home. They didn't get any permits or license to work in the city. They have really messed up. What all did they violate? And who is liable? The insurance company? The contractor or both? Any advice would b greatly appreciated. Thanks.


  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Chicago IL
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    Default Re: Help

    Based on what you have stated, the panel is now defective and needs replacement. One could also make the case that wiring needs to be replaced. Amount and type of paint could cause overheating on the wiring also.
    Who's liable - hire an attorney now. Chances are some combination of the contractor and the insurance company. Although I would speculate the insurance company has all kinds of paperwork limiting their liability.
    Take lots of pictures, hire an attorney, hire a qualified inspector to document conditions.
    You can all the City if you want but I wouldn't recommend it at this point. Depending on your local statutes that may or may not be a good course of action. Document times, dates and details of all conversations with all parties. Write letters or emails afterwards to confirm the conversations. This will provide written back-up.
    Good luck

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  6. #6
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasha Harris View Post
    Should all the wire be repulled also? This is a bad mess. This is the contractor the insurance company sent to my home. They didn't get any permits or license to work in the city. They have really messed up. What all did they violate? And who is liable? The insurance company? The contractor or both? Any advice would b greatly appreciated. Thanks.
    Stop them from doing any additional work. If the insurance company is the one who hired them to do the work then call your agent and tell them that they have a major problem. Most importantly, I would also hire a good local home inspector to document what has happened and to issue a report on what needs to be done.

    What happened? Did you have a fire in the home? What kind of damage?

    The paint will not usually hurt the wires, it is the panel that is damaged.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  7. #7
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    Jul 2008
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
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    Default Re: Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    ...

    The paint will not usually hurt the wires, it is the panel that is damaged.
    I disagree. Original formula KILZ can damage WIRE insulation.

    The componants as well as the panel and cabinet itself are now unsafe.

    The contractor is liable, HIS insurer is the indeminity - IF he has one.


  8. #8
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    Yes I had a small fire with smoke damage all throughout the house and garage. This is the contractor that my insurance company sent to me to do this work after I fired serve pro. I am angry by this and really need to talk to someone that also has legal knowledge


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    New York
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    Default Re: Help

    Where is Paducah?

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  10. #10
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    Mar 2007
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    Knoxville, TN
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    Default Re: Help

    "I disagree. Original formula KILZ can damage WIRE insulation."
    I would be interested in knowing how this happens.


  11. #11
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    This contractor didn't go to city hall to get business license to work in Paducah. No permit and the room still reeks of smoke. When I told him he had the painter spray killz. I looked behind it. I have electricians license. I went through apprenticeship with l.u. 816. So I take this very personal. I think laws were broken but people say as long as insurance company is trying to correct it I really can't do anything


  12. #12
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    Paducah is in kentucky


  13. #13
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    The insurance company is sending another contractor to fix this....I've been out of my home since march 24th


  14. #14
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Natasha Harris View Post
    A contractor told a painter to spray killz all inside my panel. Once I figure out how... I'll post pics.
    Was the panel interior removed when they painted the inside of the panel?


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    New York
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    Default Re: Help

    Erby Crofutt is in Kentucky. You should contact him. He will protect your interests.

    Click here. Kentucky Licensed Home Inspections By B4U Close Home Inspections in Lexington, Kentucky

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  16. #16
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    No. If some one can send me email I can forward the pics. Im on my iPhone and I don't know how to post the pics here


  17. #17
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    Thanks for the link


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    New York
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    Default Re: Help

    Posted on behalf of Natasha

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  19. #19
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    Thank you Steve for posting for me. The city inspector wrote a letter for me to give to the insurance company. They have sent another contractor but I'm still upset by this and annoyed how they are acting like it's not a big deal.


  20. #20
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    Chicago IL
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    Default Re: Help

    My guess, is HG is referring to that original Kilz is an oil based product, and a harsh one I would add. Kilz and such products are also why I posted my comment about potential damage to wire.
    Do I know the chemical interaction between an oil based product and some crappy chinese plastic type wire insulation? Nope. However beyond just having an oil based product inside an electrical enclosure, I doubt its good for the wire.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  21. #21
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    This is true. Not good at all.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Help

    I also see that there is paint coating the upper busses.

    I'm curious what the letter from the city inspector to the insurance company said.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  23. #23
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    I spoke with city inspector on thursday. He said the letter was mailed certified. If I don't get it in todays mail I should have it on monday and ill post what it says.


  24. #24
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    I got the letter but it just said to replace panel and breakers. A let down...it didn't even address the contractor or anything.


  25. #25
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Help

    I am of the opinion that a panel does not need to be replaced due to a little over-spray that can be easily cleaned up but I would have to say that is a big mess and it's hard to comprehend somebody would do that on purpose!


  26. #26
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    Lol that's funny. Did you not see the pictures? Far cry from a little over spray. Anyway the letter said replace panel and breakers.


  27. #27
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    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    26,252

    Default Re: Help

    Original Kilz is a shellac product (all original Kilz is is white pigmented shellac).

    The contractor ruined the panel, the conductors, and everything else they touched.

    Not having obtained permits is a no-no.

    On Monday I recommend having the local building department come out and inspect the work which was done, let them go after the contractor(s) for work without permits.

    Here is something else you can do (which I did not think of the other night when you called) - see if there is a public adjuster in your area. They work for you and they get paid based on how much they get for you ... the insurance adjuster is paid for by the insurance company and their job is to spend as little of the insurance company's money as they can get away with.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  28. #28
    Natasha Harris's Avatar
    Natasha Harris Guest

    Default Re: Help

    The adjuster acts like we are dealing with her money. It's very frustrating that's for sure.


  29. #29
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    Default Re: Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Original Kilz is a shellac product (all original Kilz is is white pigmented shellac)...
    No, actually it isn't, and you are confusing Original formula KILZ with Original formula BIN(S).

    However, both can be destructive to wiring insulation, panel insulators, circuit breakers, fuses, and neither belong anywhere in an electrical cabinet or panel.

    VOCs, amonnia, etc. can be especially detrimental to, for example, the nylon coating which is over the thermoplastic insulation (PVC), or synthetic rubber, or natural rubber on THHN, THWN, TW, etc. wire, other insulator material can become saturated; nylon can be further softened, temporarily or permanently, dissolved, etc. Infiltrates and contact liquid or vapors can adversely affect the lubricant in MCCBs, I could go on and on, not to mention the overall safety ratings of the panel, blocking free air exhange within the cabinet, flamability of contacts, overheating, on and on at contact and connector points, etc.

    Most importantly, bare conductors are no longer "bare, and each and every "hot" conductor has been inappropriately "identified" (which means it has been marked to be a grounded conductor) in the panel.

    Using acetone, odorless mineral spirits or similar to "remove" the inappropriate "identification" will not "undo" the material exposure (nylon coating on THHN or THWN wire for example), nor "undo" the damage to said coating; which may be visible microscopically, or not (aging, crazing, brittle-izing, etc). Ammonia is absolutely a no-no as are most alcohols upon the nylon coatings, natural rubber, synthetic rubber and many of the "plastics".

    The panel and cabinet are delisted. Unless you're prepared to spend the money for a NTL to do a full-blown field evaluation, which is many times more expensive than the costs and labor involved in total and complete replacement, and most assuredly unlikely to PASS (field evaluation), there is really no reason to do other than full replacement. Some re-wiring will be necessary. Some may be able to be nipped and spliced within the new panel, possibly slightly relocating replacement panel may take care of most of the contaminated, likely damaged, inappropriately "identified" wiring.

    There is no question, this load center should be condemend in its entirety, it is beyond cost-effective redemption or remediation.


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