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  1. #1
    David Kirkpatrick's Avatar
    David Kirkpatrick Guest

    Default Shingle placement on drip edge issue.

    My camp roof is currently being shingled with architectural shingles and drip edge. There are many sections where water is goes from the drip edge onto the shadow board and fascia. In a few places it's a waterfall and streams along the fascia but I can't tell if it's wicking up into the soffit area.

    I think the issue is due to improper placement of the shingles on the drip edge i.e not extended past the drip edge enough. After poking around the net quite a bit I found many roofing forums, business sites and this site that discuss drip edge and the placement of shingles over the drip edge, for example, Certainteed Shingle Applicators Manual, GAF, Asphalt Roofing Manufacturers Association and this site.
    The general consensus seems to be that shingles should extend over the drip edge by 1/4 to 3/4 of and inch depending on the roof pitch and area of the country. The camp is in the western mountains area of Maine, Oquossoc/Rangeley and I figured 1/2 shingle overhang would be right for the area. The contractors implementation was quite short of 1/2 and I feel an issue so I'm posting to ask about it and how to resolve the issue.

    The possibilities are:
    1/ Contractor takes out the lower course and reinstalls them to 1/2 over the drip edge.
    2/ insert a second drip edge 1/4 to 1/2 away from the existing drip edge.
    3/ insert a 3-6 inch section of single shingle between the drip edge top and the existing shingle to get the 1/2 inch past the drip edge.

    I'm not about the options so asking for advice.
    I'll add that the contractor obviously thinks the way it was done is fine. I asked a local roofer how he did the roofs he has done. He said he did not extend shingle over the drip edge. He said his farther always extended 1/4 inch. While in town today I stopped where a contractor was doing a roof and he said the roof he was doing got a 1/4 inch overhand over the drip edge and that's the way he does all roofs.

    Below (I hope) are pictures of the roof with some explanations:
    Rain off the drip edge:





    Edge alignment:






    Bow in the drip edge. The drip edge was high over much of the front porch. I could bang down some of the length but one section would not go down. There is either a high spot under it or it was started cocked and pulled in later causing it to lift. The drip edge in 1/2 of the front section is very tight to the shadow board behind the drip edge. The contractor said he had his ladder leaning against the drip edge when it was installed which might have caused the issue.


    The stained areas are from prior years. The existing roof had cedar shingles under the first course and were worn or split letting rain get right to the shadow and fascia.

    I know it's a lot of pictures but for many prior posts I've read there is generally a lack of pictures so...

    I have another question about workmanship I'll post in another thread as this one is lengthy as is.
    Any comments about the issue and how to resolve it properly would be appreciated.
    David

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    Last edited by David Kirkpatrick; 08-29-2011 at 04:39 PM. Reason: To eliminate duplicate post
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Shingle placement on drip edge issue.

    The manufacturers installation instructions need to be followed. Get a copy of the manufacturers instructions, and go from there......


  3. #3
    David Kirkpatrick's Avatar
    David Kirkpatrick Guest

    Default Re: Shingle placement on drip edge issue.

    >>Get a copy of the manufacturers instructions, and go from there.....

    I could not find anything in IKO/Cambridge install guides related the placement of the shingle on the drip edge


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
    Posts
    4,546

    Default Re: Shingle placement on drip edge issue.

    If it was up to me, the shingles would extend over the edge. That is what I expect to see. Along with gutters, but that is another matter.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  5. #5

    Default Re: Shingle placement on drip edge issue.

    Here's the installation instructions, and I agree that it would be good to have some overhang. The question is, is it required? The manufacturer doesn't specify the need for overhang of the flashing, just the overhang of the rake/ eave edges. http://www.iko.com/shared/residentia...tion/3SMSP.pdf

    Their diagram on the instructions doesn't show an overhang either, so that doesn't help.

    Do I think that an overhang should be done?-- Yes.
    Can you go back on the roofer and say it is required? I don't know.

    In my part of the country, there would be a gutter system. The flashing would be installed over the gutter, and the fascia would not get wet.

    Did he use ice and water shield at the eaves?


  6. #6

    Default Re: Shingle placement on drip edge issue.

    Anybody have ready access to the NRCA Steep Slope Manual? I'm sure it will show an overhang, but the manual is no longer free to view on- line.


  7. #7
    David Kirkpatrick's Avatar
    David Kirkpatrick Guest

    Default Re: Shingle placement on drip edge issue.

    John Kogel,
    In this area only a few houses have gutters and those that do usually only have one or two sides with gutters. The reasoning I’m told is they fall off with ice and snow loading. The gutters on the house are low end, have plastic hangers (not many) and held on with one screw but have stayed on for 20 years. It’s not unusual to have 1-4 feet of snow on the roof.

    Brandon Whitmore,

    Thanks for the IKO reference.

    “Their diagram on the instructions doesn't show an overhang either, so that doesn't help.”
    Page 5 does show a dotted line indicating overhang and the text says ¼ to 3/8ths.

    “The manufacturer doesn't specify the need for overhang of the flashing.”
    Most documents I’ve read don’t mention drip edge overhang but a few I’ve read indicate a drip edge overhang for 0 to low rake roofs of ¼ to ½ I think it was. There is usually a shingle overhang specified for those roofs also.

    “Can you go back on the roofer and say it is required? I don't know.”
    I’m getting to think I can’t even thought all the references I can find say shingle should overhang. Depending on the area of the country that’s usually from ¼ to ¾. For western central Maine I figure ½ on the shingle and it seems to me drip edge should be 1/8 away from a shadow board or fascia.

    “Did he use ice and water shield at the eaves?”
    Yes, the whole roof was done with IKO ice and water shield, no tar paper.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
    Posts
    1,842

    Default Re: Shingle placement on drip edge issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kirkpatrick View Post
    My camp roof is currently being shingled with architectural shingles and drip edge. There are many sections where water is goes from the drip edge onto the shadow board and fascia. In a few places it's a waterfall and streams along the fascia but I can't tell if it's wicking up into the soffit area.

    I think the issue is due to improper placement of the shingles on the drip edge i.e not extended past the drip edge enough. After poking around the net quite a bit I found many roofing forums, business sites and this site that discuss drip edge and the placement of shingles over the drip edge, for example, Certainteed Shingle Applicators Manual, GAF, Asphalt Roofing Manufacturers Association and this site.
    The general consensus seems to be that shingles should extend over the drip edge by 1/4 to 3/4 of and inch depending on the roof pitch and area of the country. The camp is in the western mountains area of Maine, Oquossoc/Rangeley and I figured 1/2 shingle overhang would be right for the area. The contractors implementation was quite short of 1/2 and I feel an issue so I'm posting to ask about it and how to resolve the issue.

    The possibilities are:
    1/ Contractor takes out the lower course and reinstalls them to 1/2 over the drip edge.
    2/ insert a second drip edge 1/4 to 1/2 away from the existing drip edge.
    3/ insert a 3-6 inch section of single shingle between the drip edge top and the existing shingle to get the 1/2 inch past the drip edge.

    I'm not about the options so asking for advice.
    I'll add that the contractor obviously thinks the way it was done is fine. I asked a local roofer how he did the roofs he has done. He said he did not extend shingle over the drip edge. He said his farther always extended 1/4 inch. While in town today I stopped where a contractor was doing a roof and he said the roof he was doing got a 1/4 inch overhand over the drip edge and that's the way he does all roofs.

    Below (I hope) are pictures of the roof with some explanations:
    Rain off the drip edge:





    Edge alignment:






    Bow in the drip edge. The drip edge was high over much of the front porch. I could bang down some of the length but one section would not go down. There is either a high spot under it or it was started cocked and pulled in later causing it to lift. The drip edge in 1/2 of the front section is very tight to the shadow board behind the drip edge. The contractor said he had his ladder leaning against the drip edge when it was installed which might have caused the issue.


    The stained areas are from prior years. The existing roof had cedar shingles under the first course and were worn or split letting rain get right to the shadow and fascia.

    I know it's a lot of pictures but for many prior posts I've read there is generally a lack of pictures so...

    I have another question about workmanship I'll post in another thread as this one is lengthy as is.
    Any comments about the issue and how to resolve it properly would be appreciated.
    David
    I suspect the installations were ill conceived.

    1: The starter and first course should be proud of the drip by 5/8".This stops the water tension from wandering backwards.
    What with the slope.
    It appears 4/12"
    With any dormer or valley the opposing sides will be less sloped than the main roof deck.

    2: t is also conceivable the raised portion of the tab maybe a lifted fastener.
    Very common on decks that have had water intrusion or MC at the periphery as the roof appears to be..
    The eave fascia shows wear from MC and I suspect the roof deck may have needed another layer of plywood to cover any fastener and allowing new fasteners to anchor correctly or the deck replaced all together to allow the roof structure rigidity.

    It appears to be a three season cottage as when I was younger and enjoyed camp.
    In that case maintenance was not priority. The local roofer/handymen not using proper protocol with vapor barrier may have enabled moisture in the way of frost to penetrate the decking degrading the roof deck.
    Either/or. probes and awls in a tool pouch entering uplifts and probing the wood can find many a culprits and enable a better hypothesis IMO. Like lifting fasteners, dry rot and the like.
    Hope that helps.
    All the best.
    Robert

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

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