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  1. #1
    james constuion's Avatar
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    Default Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    Ill prefix this that I think I have read every post on this site regarding my baseboard heater / outlet issue

    Basically its been talked about before, but I have found no conclusive proof of whether an electric baseboard heater can be under an outlet. Some say its a preference, others say its mandatory per the NEC. For my situation, my outlets are under the windows I would like to target with my baseboard heat to mix air flow. So, if I am not forced to ensure that the heater is a foot away I would sure like to put it under the outlet!

    So, can an outlet be above an eletric baseboard heater? I am in Minneapolis, and getting answers from the code office isn't working!

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    Manufacturers installation instructions will normally state that minimum clearances must be followed (6" to 12" clearance above the unit from any combustibles, dependent on manufacturer). Installation instructions also normally include the warning to not install the equipment under an electrical receptacle. 424.9 of the NEC and 1405.1 of the IRC allow for receptacles installed as integral devices of the baseboard heater can substitute for the required receptacles in rooms.
    Follow the listing & labeling of the manufacturer. Install according to manufacturers instructions.

    Last edited by Alton Darty; 10-04-2011 at 02:08 PM.
    Alton Darty
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    james

    here ya go

    cvf

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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    Sorry Charlie. "Should not" from the Illustrated Home is not the same as "shall not" in the local authority's code book.

    We know it is bad practice, but I am still seeing it in new construction in some of the areas I inspect. I don't know why.

    Move the outlets to the side or install the heaters to the side. Electric baseboard heaters are often parked under the windows, but they don't need to be. People often shove a couch in under the window. Better to have the heater out in the open and away from the outlets.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    Seems obvious you are asking about receptacles as to type of "outlet". Short answer is no*. The listing of the baseboard heater electric and instructions for same prohibit this installation generally.

    The general term "outlet" (many types of "outlets") is not what is restricted, it is a specific type of "outlet" and location of "outlet" i.e. "wall outlets", further convenience "receptacle(s)" which are - and which are further described and proximity to being restricted.

    However there may equipment or componant listed system which incorporates required or necessary separately powered convenience outlets/receptacles which combined as a listed system are permissible.

    The requirements of the codes require using such equipment which is listed, and to use the equipment in consistant with said listing.

    The UL "White Book" provides descriptions and references regarding the equipment "Category Codes" which you can further research the various "Standards", etc.

    The electrical resistance baseboard heating equipment is or was listed via UL/ANSI standard(s). Those listing standards include the prohibition, and require that those wall areas requiring convenience receptacles must be provided via combination equipment from the manufacturer, etc. There are listed setups which incorporate separately powered receptacles and are properly sheilded, etc. Another possiblity includes appropriately located, sheilded and protected, floor box receptacles.

    There are futher requirements and guidelines via the codes and the listing standards.

    Please post your future "Questions from Home Owners, Home Buyers, and DIYers" in that forum area. Expect you will find this discussion has been moved to that forum area in the very near future.

    This topic has been discussed on this forum in great detail on a number of occasions. The documentation for the electrical heating equipment WILL address. Think "receptacle(s)" not "outlet(s)". Suggest using search parameters to find more information, and iand consult with a licensed electrical contractor - any modification or extension of this nature would require a permit (plan) and inspection from your local authority having jurisdiction.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 10-05-2011 at 12:10 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    Are receptacles allowed above radiant baseboard heat? If so, what's the difference? Are electric baseboard heaters hotter (in temperature, I don't want HG to interpret that the wrong way )?

    -Jon
    Errickson Home Inspections, LLC
    http://www.erricksonhomeinspections.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    The receptacle is not the problem...it's just that people have a strange habit of plugging things that have "plastic electrical cords" attached to them. Weird what people will do with those receptacles


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    (bold and underlining are mine)
    From the 2008 NEC:
    - ARTICLE 424 Fixed Electric Space-Heating Equipment
    - - 424.13 Spacing from Combustible Materials.
    Fixed electric space-heating equipment shall be installed to provide the required spacing between the equipment and adjacent combustible material, unless it is listed to be installed in direct contact with combustible material.

    From the 2011 UL White Book Watson referred to:
    - BASEBOARD HEATERS (KLDR)
    - - USE AND INSTALLATION
    - - - This category covers space heaters of the portable and permanently-mounted types intended to be positioned or installed on or in the wall at the baseboard level, or on the floor.
    - - - Baseboard heaters have been investigated and found to incorporate suitable safeguards against establishment of fire hazards that might result from contact with draperies, furniture, carpeting, bedding and the like; however, discoloration or scorching (but no glowing embers or flaming) may result on adjacent materials.
    - - - Heaters, other than those marked to indicate that they are not for residential use, have been investigated to determine that the accessible surface temperatures are low enough to reduce the likelihood of burns from accidental contact.
    - - - Electrical cords, drapes, and other furnishings should be kept away from baseboard heaters. To reduce the likelihood of cords contacting the heater, the heater should not be located beneath electrical receptacles. Receptacle accessories for use with individual manufacturers’ baseboard heaters are covered under Baseboard Heater Accessories (KLQZ).
    - - - Baseboard-mounted equipment consists of two types: (1) Complete units intended for individual mounting in specific locations, and (2) complete systems, which include accessories to enable the heating units to be interconnected around the perimeter of a room (see KLQZ). With reference to these systems, each manufacturer is required to furnish detailed instructions covering the assembly of the basic units and accessories, and indicating the method in which ground continuity is intended to be maintained between adjacent sections.
    - - - Electrical fittings are provided with each heater of a system to ensure ground continuity between adjacent units and to protect interconnecting wiring, unless investigation shows that standard fittings that are available in the field will accomplish the same result.
    - - - A system which is factory furnished with all interconnecting wiring, fittings, raceways, etc., to complete the installation is considered suitable for connection to a single-outlet branch circuit.
    - - - - ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
    - - - - - For additional information, see Electrical Equipment for Use in Ordinary Locations (AALZ) and Heating, Cooling, Ventilating and Cooking Equipment (AAHC).
    - - - - REQUIREMENTS
    - - - - - The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is ANSI/UL 1042, ‘‘Electric Baseboard Heating Equipment.’’
    - - - - UL MARK
    - - - - - The Listing Mark of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. on the product is the only method provided by UL to identify products manufactured under its Listing and Follow-Up Service. The Listing Mark for these products includes the UL symbol (as illustrated in the Introduction of this Directory) together with the word "LISTED," a control number, and the product name ‘‘Electric Baseboard Heater.’’
    - - * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    - - UL, in performing its functions in accordance with its objectives, does not assume or undertake to discharge any responsibility of the manufacturer or any other party. UL shall not incur any obligation or liability for any loss, expense or damages, including incidental or consequential damages, arising out of or in connection with the use, interpretation of, or reliance upon this Guide Information.

    Now, that says "should" instead of "shall", so consideration "should" be given to that word, such as ... when playing Russian Roulette one "should" check to make sure that the cylinder does not have a round in each of the chamber ... mind you, that does not say that one "shall" check first, only that one "should" check first.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    One source you can cite:

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    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    What about radiant baseboard heat??

    -Jon
    Errickson Home Inspections, LLC
    http://www.erricksonhomeinspections.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    This doesn't come up often for me, however it did come up on a recent Condo inspection. I told the client it was a no-no, realtor complained. I looked up the specific baseboard heater and bingo.
    Check out page 2 of the attached pdf. It says "DO NOT INSTALL ANY BASEBOARD BELOW AN ELECTRICAL OUTLET". I have also seen same/similar language in other manufacturer docs.
    Hope that helps.
    Ok, for some reason I can't get the PDF to upload. This specific electric baseboard is a 'Cadet'.

    www.aic-chicago.com
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    It is too common in my area, lots of electric heat here. No excuse for it in new home construction. It is easy enough to move the heater to one side.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Baseboard Heater, Near Outlets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    (bold and underlining are mine)
    From the 2008 NEC:
    - ARTICLE 424 Fixed Electric Space-Heating Equipment
    - - 424.13 Spacing from Combustible Materials.
    Fixed electric space-heating equipment shall be installed to provide the required spacing between the equipment and adjacent combustible material, unless it is listed to be installed in direct contact with combustible material.

    From the 2011 UL White Book Watson referred to:
    - BASEBOARD HEATERS (KLDR)
    - - USE AND INSTALLATION
    - - - This category covers space heaters of the portable and permanently-mounted types intended to be positioned or installed on or in the wall at the baseboard level, or on the floor.
    - - - Baseboard heaters have been investigated and found to incorporate suitable safeguards against establishment of fire hazards that might result from contact with draperies, furniture, carpeting, bedding and the like; however, discoloration or scorching (but no glowing embers or flaming) may result on adjacent materials.
    - - - Heaters, other than those marked to indicate that they are not for residential use, have been investigated to determine that the accessible surface temperatures are low enough to reduce the likelihood of burns from accidental contact.
    - - - Electrical cords, drapes, and other furnishings should be kept away from baseboard heaters. To reduce the likelihood of cords contacting the heater, the heater should not be located beneath electrical receptacles. Receptacle accessories for use with individual manufacturers’ baseboard heaters are covered under Baseboard Heater Accessories (KLQZ).
    - - - Baseboard-mounted equipment consists of two types: (1) Complete units intended for individual mounting in specific locations, and (2) complete systems, which include accessories to enable the heating units to be interconnected around the perimeter of a room (see KLQZ). With reference to these systems, each manufacturer is required to furnish detailed instructions covering the assembly of the basic units and accessories, and indicating the method in which ground continuity is intended to be maintained between adjacent sections.
    - - - Electrical fittings are provided with each heater of a system to ensure ground continuity between adjacent units and to protect interconnecting wiring, unless investigation shows that standard fittings that are available in the field will accomplish the same result.
    - - - A system which is factory furnished with all interconnecting wiring, fittings, raceways, etc., to complete the installation is considered suitable for connection to a single-outlet branch circuit.
    - - - - ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
    - - - - - For additional information, see Electrical Equipment for Use in Ordinary Locations (AALZ) and Heating, Cooling, Ventilating and Cooking Equipment (AAHC).
    - - - - REQUIREMENTS
    - - - - - The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is ANSI/UL 1042, ‘‘Electric Baseboard Heating Equipment.’’
    - - - - UL MARK
    - - - - - The Listing Mark of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. on the product is the only method provided by UL to identify products manufactured under its Listing and Follow-Up Service. The Listing Mark for these products includes the UL symbol (as illustrated in the Introduction of this Directory) together with the word "LISTED," a control number, and the product name ‘‘Electric Baseboard Heater.’’
    - - * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    - - UL, in performing its functions in accordance with its objectives, does not assume or undertake to discharge any responsibility of the manufacturer or any other party. UL shall not incur any obligation or liability for any loss, expense or damages, including incidental or consequential damages, arising out of or in connection with the use, interpretation of, or reliance upon this Guide Information.

    Now, that says "should" instead of "shall", so consideration "should" be given to that word, such as ... when playing Russian Roulette one "should" check to make sure that the cylinder does not have a round in each of the chamber ... mind you, that does not say that one "shall" check first, only that one "should" check first.
    Great post.
    I say this to all my clients.
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    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 11-10-2016 at 05:20 AM.
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