Thread: "designer" power strips for mounting on counter tops

My wife and I completely redesigned our kitchen about four years ago down to the bare walls. The one thing that remains to do is to find some very good looking power strips for an island. When we renovated, we tore out a 240 VAC island cooktop and the power connections are simply capped off under in the base of the island. We have always intended to add 5 or 6 120VAC outlets to the island "preparation" area, but I have never seen nice looking power strips. Everything is industrial or rather cheap looking wiremold power strips. We spent $60,000 on the kitchen and I don't want to use shop grade powerstrips, but I can't find anything better/nicer. These ideally would be visible and would be placed either on the back vertical surface of the preparation area, or potentially at a 45 degree angle on the joint between the white Corian countertop and the back vertical surface. Anyone have anything to recommend that would suit this purpose? Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Gary

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Kitchen Power Grommet - Doug Mockett.com

Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR

Kitchen Power Grommet - Doug Mockett.com

Cool BadAir! I knew we kept you around for some reason.

May look cool but that will never meet code for an installed cabinet island in a kitchen, even if it were TR, that's not the intrinsic problem.

Also, that's a relocatable power strip and its cord and plug connected.

... the white Corian countertop and the back vertical surface.

Have an electrician install receptacle outlets on the back vertical surface.

You have a vertical surface, use it.

These ideally would be visible and would be placed either on the back vertical surface of the preparation area, or potentially at a 45 degree angle on the joint between the white Corian countertop and the back vertical surface

You may not have the receptacles' face up or at 45 degrees offset from up. You may have the receptacle face vertical, or if mounting on a cabinet or other surface over top the countertop and within 20" (face of receptacle no more than 20" above countertop surface) you can have the receptacles' face down towards the island countertop surface.

The circut supplying/powering the receptacles must be a dedicated small appliance circuit (which can have outlets in other rooms, just only dedicated for the purpose of powering small appliances and none which are fixed in place) and the receptacles serving your fixed, installed, kitchen island countertop must be GFCI protected.

Originally Posted by Gary Jones

we tore out a 240 VAC island cooktop and the power connections are simply capped off under in the base of the island. We have always intended to add 5 or 6 120VAC outlets

Make sure your electrician does not just use that 240 volt circuit for the 120 volt receptacle outlets. Needs to make sure that they re-identify the conductor they use for the neutral to white and that there is a proper hot-neutral-ground with properly sized breaker too.

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

May look cool but that will never meet code for an installed cabinet island in a kitchen, even if it were TR, that's not the intrinsic problem.

I'm apparently having bad hair night as I am not following you there, other than it is not currently TR, nor did I find that it was UL or otherwise listed ... what precisely are you referring to about not being allowed even if it was TR?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Make sure your electrician does not just use that 240 volt circuit for the 120 volt receptacle outlets. Needs to make sure that they re-identify the conductor they use for the neutral to white and that there is a proper hot-neutral-ground with properly sized breaker too.

What neutral? if its an old 240 V cooktop, range, or oven circuit, it wouldn't have a neutral, just two hots and a ground.

He didn't say it was a 120/240 V circuit, did he.

Sure hope the breaker or fuses have been locked out/off.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I'm apparently having bad hair night as I am not following you there, other than it is not currently TR, nor did I find that it was UL or otherwise listed ... what precisely are you referring to about not being allowed even if it was TR?

UL File No. E211536. Electrical codes vary by location. Please check with your electrician to verify that this unit meets your local code before installing.

Designed as a relocatable power tap for retrofit only

9 ft. electrical cord.
Recommended table thickness: 1/8" minimum to 2" maximum

Its a glorified extension cord. Fine for a kitchen CART or a free-standing table, but no go IN an installed countertop in a kitchen.

$127.00 for a power strip that plugs in seems like a lot of money.

I want to thank everyone that has responded so far. THANK YOU. I am now aware of one :"designer power strip" that I would not have been able to find otherwise, and the related comments about code are not issues that I would have thought about. This whole discussion has been very helpful. ~$150.00 for a power plug is a lot but this island is not just a standard island and it cost enough that that cost for power access would not be a problem. We have spent a lot of money on this redesign and we dont want to just slap a duplex plug or two into this unit if there is something else that looks great and fits the application. I will try to put a picture or two of the set-up up here on the page. I am surprised that electrical supply manufacturers have not confronted this need more clearly. I don't have a real problem with putting duplex sockets in the "back splash" vertical surface, if that is the only option, but the standard duplex outlet would "spoil" the wooden surfaces. A nice chrome or brass polished steel power strip with a low profile that could be routed into the wood or low profile surface mounted but be manufactured to be equivalent to the "look" of a kitchen appliance or Viking or GE units would be really nice in a kitchen. Maybe this discussion will serve as a stimulus for one of the power strip manufacturers to think a little out of the box and come up with something for this type of use.
Again, all of you, thanks for the discussion so far. If there are other suggestions, I will certainly give them a lot of thought.
Gary

Originally Posted by Gary Jones

I want to thank everyone that has responded so far. THANK YOU. I am now aware of one :"designer power strip" that I would not have been able to find otherwise, and the related comments about code are not issues that I would have thought about. This whole discussion has been very helpful. ~$150.00 for a power plug is a lot but this island is not just a standard island and it cost enough that that cost for power access would not be a problem. We have spent a lot of money on this redesign and we dont want to just slap a duplex plug or two into this unit if there is something else that looks great and fits the application. I will try to put a picture or two of the set-up up here on the page. I am surprised that electrical supply manufacturers have not confronted this need more clearly. I don't have a real problem with putting duplex sockets in the "back splash" vertical surface, if that is the only option, but the standard duplex outlet would "spoil" the wooden surfaces. A nice chrome or brass polished steel power strip with a low profile that could be routed into the wood or low profile surface mounted but be manufactured to be equivalent to the "look" of a kitchen appliance or Viking or GE units would be really nice in a kitchen. Maybe this discussion will serve as a stimulus for one of the power strip manufacturers to think a little out of the box and come up with something for this type of use.
Again, all of you, thanks for the discussion so far. If there are other suggestions, I will certainly give them a lot of thought.
Gary

If you like it then have it installed! It is your home and the code police are not going to bust down the door because of the power strip! It is your home and as long as it is not bothering anyone you can pretty much do what you want. Now when it comes time to sell your home it might be noted by a home inspector and it might not be noted. With a $60,000 kitchen remodel, it does not sound like you will be moving in a few years!

Gary,
Take a regular/commercial power strip and have a metal shop fabricator cap it in brass.
Just an idea.

The absolute last thing you should do is use that office furniture (furniture only) power strip for your invested kitchen!Not only is it not safe to use in the manner suggested, it will in no way be safe to power high end, motor driven portable kitchen appliances safely. It will overheat and cause the appliances to overheat.Using metallic boxes and face plates of something already manufactured in a food preperation environment, with devices not designed and listed for same is also dicey. Grounding and bonding questionable. How often is a hand even remotely damp when working in the kitchen preparing damp, moist, food stuffs?There are always options. Post up some pictures or a drawing/diagram for some that might enhance the limited word picture.For example areas of an island where the countertop overhang is minimal can "house" receptacles for use on the island. Disguising these receptacle outlets when not in use can be done in very creative ways. Maximum convenience and safety combined would iinvolve the use of combination GFCI receptacles at the island or in the kitchen (so you don't have to travel outside the kitchen to test or reset.Your island receptacles should be rated for 20 amps face if you're planning on using higher-powered high end small appliances on the island (20 amp feed through and be solidly and effectively grounded and bonded and supplied with dedicated small appliance branch circuit(s)) regardless.A single high-end bread maker, a single super-duper juicer, etc. can draw 16 amps on its own. If you're going to be operating more than one appliance and/or anything else at the same time you want to plan accordingly. Looking forward to seeing the pictures and/or diagrams/drawings.

There are a number of options that may suit your purpose available through some of the higher end home theater installation groups or electrical contractors who specialize in home theater installations.
Power stations that rise up from a stowed position behind the unit or from a slot in the horizontal surface are one such option. Also sections that rotate up from a surface could be an alternative.
The main issue now could be that you are attempting to find a solution that should have been addressed during the construction of the island. The last thing that you need in a kitchen such as what you describe is a solution that looks like an afterthought...

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

What neutral? if its an old 240 V cooktop, range, or oven circuit, it wouldn't have a neutral, just two hots and a ground.

Uhhh ... not if he had any smarts and used the existing conductors and just *re-wired it*.

Then he would have the required hot (ungrounded conductor), neutral (grounded conductor), and ground (the ground conductor).

Now, if he was stupid enough to *not* re-wire it, I doubt he would be here posting ... doncha think?

He didn't say it was a 120/240 V circuit, did he.

He didn't have to ... anyone with any smarts ... ANYONE ... should have been able to figure out that all he had to do was to use the same conductors and re-wire them ... you *did* figure that out ... right?

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

Its a glorified extension cord. Fine for a kitchen CART or a free-standing table, but no go IN an installed countertop in a kitchen.

Depends ... as I said above ...

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

other than it is not currently TR, nor did I find that it was UL or otherwise listed ... what precisely are you referring to about not being allowed even if it was TR?

You said it would not be allowed "even if it were TR", and you have not answered my question of "what precisely are you referring to about not being allowed even if it was TR?".

*IF* ... and that is indeed a big *IF* ... but ... *IF* that is UL listed for that use ... then is would be allowed IF it was TR ... which it currently is not, so the question is a bit moot, but your statement said it would not be allowed ... even if ... "even if it were TR" ... and I am saying that *IF* ... yes ... *IF* ... if it was UL listed for that use, then your statement "even if it were TR" would be incorrect.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Uhhh ... not if he had any smarts and used the existing conductors and just *re-wired it*.

Then he would have the required hot (ungrounded conductor), neutral (grounded conductor), and ground (the ground conductor).

Now, if he was stupid enough to *not* re-wire it, I doubt he would be here posting ... doncha think?



He didn't have to ... anyone with any smarts ... ANYONE ... should have been able to figure out that all he had to do was to use the same conductors and re-wire them ... you *did* figure that out ... right?

Peck, been drinking again?

Its an old electric cooktop circuit just capped off not rewired anything. Straight 240V no slant anything, THAT IS what the OP said. DUH!

H-H-bare ground. No "neutral" required in an old electric resistance only range or cooktop circuit.

OP never said anything about rewiring anything -- you just made that up, along with your creation of a fictious 4-wire circuit for an old electric cooktop.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Depends ... as I said above ...


You said it would not be allowed "even if it were TR", and you have not answered my question of "what precisely are you referring to about not being allowed even if it was TR?".

*IF* ... and that is indeed a big *IF* ... but ... *IF* that is UL listed for that use ... then is would be allowed IF it was TR ... which it currently is not, so the question is a bit moot, but your statement said it would not be allowed ... even if ... "even if it were TR" ... and I am saying that *IF* ... yes ... *IF* ... if it was UL listed for that use, then your statement "even if it were TR" would be incorrect.

No it doesn't "DEPEND" on anything. Absolutely and without a doubt it MAY NOT be used in the manner the OP inquires about.

Your "TR" comment only proves you haven't read and comprehended what the site link stated, nor what it meant; and that you can't figure out which entity Listed the product or what the product type actually is (and can't look up a thing in the Database or the White Book, nor apply the simplest of information in same).

To put it simply, a sock is not a hat and a hat is not a sock. Although you might be able to take a piece of hosery and stretch it over the top of your head, it still is not a hat, even though you attempt to use it as such, it doesn't change the fact it is a sock. And although you can stick your foot in a hat, that doesn't make that hat a sock, nor a shoe for that matter. Sure there is such a thing as a stocking cap, but that stocking cap is net a sock (or a stocking).

Yeah, I actually did answer your questions, by selectively quoting the information from the page that B. adAir linked to, the content of which CLEARLY and COMPLETELY answers your questions, I even summed it up and drove the stake home with the summation you quoted, which IF YOU HAD even the most tiniest bit of A CLUE (which of course you don't) you'd have gotten "IT".

The information was provided if you know what it means and can apply that information, addresses the issues. And yeah, its listed for what it is, and it is not UL listed or Listed with another NTL for anything other than what it is Listed AS and FOR.

When will you admit that you're clueless about UL Standards, Category Codes, or how to use the UL Database?

If you ADMIT you can't figure it out, and politely ASK, I just might spell it out for you, and link you to it (like I've done despite your games, scores, if not hundreds of times before) AGAIN. Perhaps not, I've explained so many times HOW TO FIND something on the data base to you, and you've never managed to do it yourself. Heck, Peck, I don't think you can even find the search page for the UL Online Certifications Directory database yourself.

In coming on four years, you still haven't been able to look up a G.D. thing on the Directory by yourself and can't find a thing unless you're provided a direct link to the on-line version of the Listing card; and you still can't manage to comprehend the most obvious of distinctions regarding what equipment is listed for and what it is not.

It is a listed product. It MAY NOT be used for the OPs application, or in the manner suggested by the web site linked by B. adAir.

IT IS NOT LISTED TO BE INSTALLED IN permanent construction. It wasn't manufactured to be set in anything but "furniture" and as nothing more than what it actually IS listed as and categoriezed to be.

I know you're paranoid to actually follow a link or read a web page, but as pertains to this discussion, untill and unless you do, and then afterwards admit you're still completely without a clue (as you indeed are), STFU and eat $*IT till you're ready to eat crow. When and if you do, I'm sure SOMEONE will be willing to pass you some salt.

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

Peck, been drinking again?

Its an old electric cooktop circuit just capped off not rewired anything. Straight 240V no slant anything, THAT IS what the OP said. DUH!

H-H-bare ground. No "neutral" required in an old electric resistance only range or cooktop circuit.

OP never said anything about rewiring anything -- you just made that up, along with your creation of a fictious 4-wire circuit for an old electric cooktop.

Watson,

You off your meds again? Sheesh, you really need to keep up with your meds.

This is what he said:
- "we tore out a 240 VAC island cooktop and the power connections are simply capped off under in the base of the island. We have always intended to add 5 or 6 120VAC outlets to the island "preparation" area"

Now THINK Watson, THINK, what is the first thing which comes to your mind as to HOW TO USE THOSE CONDUCTORS FOR their new intended use?

HINT: "re-wiring"

And ... before you even bother posting that re-using those conductors are not allowed ... PROVIDED A CODE REFERENCE for that if you do post statement.

Those conductors will, almost certainly without any question, be of the MINIMUM ampacity required for the 20 amp circuit for the new intended use.

Okay, Watson, THINK ... THINK ... did you think of "re-wiring" for the above question?

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

No it doesn't "DEPEND" on anything. Absolutely and without a doubt it MAY NOT be used in the manner the OP inquires about.

Watson, you really NEED to get back on your meds ...

*IF* those are UL listed for that use ... Watson, get that yet? ... "*IF*" ... "those are" ... "UL LISTED" ... "FOR THAT USE" ... Watson, get it yet? ... then they would be allowed *IF* they were also TR.

One more thing, Watson, *I* also said "nor did I find that it was UL or otherwise listed" ... maybe you did not comprehend that part EITHER.

To the OP, I think the point Mr HG is trying to convey is that electricity and water don't mix well in a kitchen. The Corian gets wiped everyday with a damp cloth. I like Corian and have a custom countertop in my kitchen.

The power strip needs to be elevated above the countertop, not recessed into it.
Most people mount the outlets for an island in the cabinet wall below the top. Put several receptacles side by side if you like, all hooked up to a GFCI.

If you can't have cords hanging over the edge of the top, maybe the receptacles can go inside a cabinet and the cords can pass through a fancy hole in the Corian. An appliance garage with receptacles inside is another option.

Originally Posted by John Kogel

electricity and water don't mix well in a kitchen. The Corian gets wiped everyday with a damp cloth. I like Corian and have a custom countertop in my kitchen.

The power strip needs to be elevated above the countertop, not recessed into it.
.
.
If you can't have cords hanging over the edge of the top, maybe the receptacles can go inside a cabinet and the cords can pass through a fancy hole in the Corian.

Ummm ... ... if you put a hole through the Corian, no matter how fancy it is, you have just put a ... well ... a hole through the Corian countertop - any and all spilled liquids and juices will go through that hole and run down the cords to ... well "electricity and water don't mix well in a kitchen".

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Watson, you really NEED to get back on your meds ...

*IF* those are UL listed for that use ... Watson, get that yet? ... "*IF*" ... "those are" ... "UL LISTED" ... "FOR THAT USE" ... Watson, get it yet? ... then they would be allowed *IF* they were also TR.

One more thing, Watson, *I* also said "nor did I find that it was UL or otherwise listed" ... maybe you did not comprehend that part EITHER.

PECK,

There is NO "IF" about it. That product type may not be used for the purpose suggested to the OP nor the application the OP inquires about.

The product is an identified product type, and is Listed only as that product type, a product type which may not be used in that way, and a product Listing which is further LIMITED in its application, listing, and actual manufacturers (the one who holds the listing) LISTED INSTRUCTIONS, applications, and product use purpose and installation insructions which are conditional (not some b.s. marketing language from a "third party" seller).

The ACTUAL manufacturer has to have a Listing. The actual Manufacturer does not have a Listing with UL or any other NTL for that product FOR THAT USE.

That product has but ONE Listing, with any NTL, and that is for a purpose and to a Standard, as a Product which does NOT PERMIT THE USE suggested by that distributor/seller's web site, NOR one which ALLOWS its installation in PERMANENT construction, or in anything other than FURNITURE, which is not affixed or installed (free standing), and which has been constructed to accept such.

Its a HON/Herman Miller/etc. knock-off for Commercial/office (non-residential) type furniture, and which may be prohibited to be used in such environments due to restrictions by Codes, ordinances, etc. for use of such product categories in general, limitation on number of devices, va, utilization upon supplying branch circuits; and which may prohibit use of such devices which are only "wired" and Listed at 15 amps in certain occupancies, etc. and those which are not specifically listed for use in non-household environments, or special environments. (and other devices/equipment in use, such as powered cubical walls, etc. which may not have such devices supplied from same).

P.S. your b.s. about repurposing old electric cooktop or range wiring now claiming you meant to re-wire is b.s.

You cannot repurpose now excluded use of wiring materials which were only permitted to remain in use or be used in the first place due to an application specific exception, and repurpose to an illegal wiring method.
So your entire attempts at re-writing and piling more b.s. upon the already steaming heap of dung you've tossed out is irrelevant.

You create a new branch circuit where one did not exist before, you use a legal wiring method for same. You extend an existing circuit you do so using current, legal wiring methods. An individual branch circuit for an electric cooktop or electric range is a dedicated individual branch circuit. The existing circuit in question has been identified by the OP as being a 240V electric cooktop circuit. This circuit is improperly terminated at the present time as the OP describes it (live or able to be energized, and terminating merely in taped wire nuts, not contained, etc.). The wiring needs to be needs to be de-energized at a minimum. Ideally this would be de-energizing, disconnecting it at its source (origination), that being the location of the OCPD.

20 Amp receptacles, and especially combination GFCI receptacles are limited as to what size wiring they may accept. Stranded conductors vs. solid. A dedicated (individual) branch circuit supplying an ELECTRIC cooktop would not have been supplied with solid hot conductors.

Now you're suggesting your instructions for reidentifying the existing conductors were an instruction to re-wire the circuit, no they are not. You did not make any reference to pulling new cable or wire, you started spouting off on repurposing the existing 3-wire branch circuit which formerly supplied the previous but no longer present electric cooktop.

Originally Posted by John Kogel

To the OP, I think the point Mr HG is trying to convey is that electricity and water don't mix well in a kitchen. The Corian gets wiped everyday with a damp cloth. I like Corian and have a custom countertop in my kitchen.

The power strip needs to be elevated above the countertop, not recessed into it.
Most people mount the outlets for an island in the cabinet wall below the top. Put several receptacles side by side if you like, all hooked up to a GFCI.

If you can't have cords hanging over the edge of the top, maybe the receptacles can go inside a cabinet and the cords can pass through a fancy hole in the Corian. An appliance garage with receptacles inside is another option.

I am conveying that neither a 15 amp relocatable power tap, nor a 15 amp extension cord is a wiring method; neither is either a substitute for permanent wiring, required branch circuits or receptacles, and IN NO WAY provides REQUIRED 20 amp Small appliance branch circuit supplied GFCI protected receptacle outlet required at kitchen installed kitchen countertop surface upon a fixed kitchen island.

9-ft corded relocatable power taps and 9-ft extension cords rated at 15 amps are not "wired" sufficently. Cord-and-plug connected devices are not substitutes for fixed wiring.

They are not substitutes for required receptacles and never are.

Convenience receptacles incorporated into other equipment, appliances, devices, cabinetry, etc., shaver outlets, etc. (even if supplied by fixed wiring) are not substitutes for receptacles which are expressly required by the NEC.

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

P.S. your b.s. about repurposing old electric cooktop or range wiring now claiming you meant to re-wire is b.s.

You cannot repurpose now excluded use of wiring materials which were only permitted to remain in use or be used in the first place due to an application specific exception, and repurpose to an illegal wiring method.

Watson,

As with the rest of your B.S., the 20 amp, 120 volt, branch circuit this will now be requires the following:
- One (1) ungrounded 'hot' conductor (typically identified as black in that wiring). That previously-used-for-a-240 volt-range-circuit *has* a conductor which more than meets the requirements for that conductor.
- One (1) grounded 'neutral' conductor (typically identified as red in that wiring, but may have also been black, but which is now re-identified to white to identify the grounded 'neutral' conductor). That previously-used-for-a-240 volt-range-circuit *has* a conductor which more than meets the requirements for that conductor.
- One (1) equipment ground 'grounding' conductor (typically either bare or identified as green). That previously-used-for-a-240 volt-range-circuit *has* a conductor which more than meets the requirements for that conductor.
- One additional requirement is that the conductor ampacity must meet or exceed the ampacity required for the 20 amp circuit. Being as that was previously used as a range circuit, probably 40 or 50 amp, the ampacities of the conductors in that previously-used-for-a-240 volt-range-circuit *has* conductors of such ampacity rating that those existing conductor more than meets the requirements for that conductor - thus those conductors *meet or exceed the MINIMUM requirements for the 20-amp, 120 volt, circuit.

You were to provide a code reference for your statement stating that those conductor are not allowed to be re-used for the 20-amp, 120 volt circuit ...

... as usual ...

... you have not done so.

To much other garbage in your posts to debate and pick apart when you refuse to do at least that one simple thing - BACK UP YOUR DECLARATION that such use is not allowed.

Watson ... get back on your meds ... get off your wooden rocking high horse and provide the supporting documentation.

I didn't say a hole, I said a fancy hole. One with a raised lip around it, gooseneck fitting or a gasket. Now, back to whatever that was I just scrolled past.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Watson,

As with the rest of your B.S., the 20 amp, 120 volt, branch circuit this will now be requires the following:
- One (1) ungrounded 'hot' conductor (typically identified as black in that wiring). That previously-used-for-a-240 volt-range-circuit *has* a conductor which more than meets the requirements for that conductor.
- One (1) grounded 'neutral' conductor (typically identified as red in that wiring, but may have also been black, but which is now re-identified to white to identify the grounded 'neutral' conductor). That previously-used-for-a-240 volt-range-circuit *has* a conductor which more than meets the requirements for that conductor.
- One (1) equipment ground 'grounding' conductor (typically either bare or identified as green). That previously-used-for-a-240 volt-range-circuit *has* a conductor which more than meets the requirements for that conductor.
- One additional requirement is that the conductor ampacity must meet or exceed the ampacity required for the 20 amp circuit. Being as that was previously used as a range circuit, probably 40 or 50 amp, the ampacities of the conductors in that previously-used-for-a-240 volt-range-circuit *has* conductors of such ampacity rating that those existing conductor more than meets the requirements for that conductor - thus those conductors *meet or exceed the MINIMUM requirements for the 20-amp, 120 volt, circuit.

You were to provide a code reference for your statement stating that those conductor are not allowed to be re-used for the 20-amp, 120 volt circuit ...

... as usual ...

... you have not done so.

To much other garbage in your posts to debate and pick apart when you refuse to do at least that one simple thing - BACK UP YOUR DECLARATION that such use is not allowed.

Watson ... get back on your meds ... get off your wooden rocking high horse and provide the supporting documentation.

LOL!

ASS-uming away you are yet again.

You have no way of knowing IF the circuit in question is actually a dedicated individual branch circuit Peck.

It very well could have been a SMALLER guage (allowed) TAP (STILL LEGAL BTW) off of a or 50 amp OCPD protected WALL OVEN supplying and now range supplying CIRCUIT.

You have NO IDEA and cannot determine based on the OP's description (but even a general clueless HO would normally have mentioned IF the OCPD was disabled and the Circuit or the TAP was NO LONGER LIVE). Nay, he indicates it is merely capped and taped.

Finally, a bare N serving as Gnd for a 3-wire electric cook top, wall oven, or range also under permissive use in an OLDER and continued to be permissive use even under present NEC under existing) is not only more likely, but COMMON.

If the OP is actually a DIYer and follows your DIY instructions (and has either commonly found even today in homes of any signicant age) (3-wire H-H-bare as Gnd OR SOOOOOO common with electric cooktop is it has been (and still allowed even today) TAPPED off of a wall OVEN circuit - that if he suffers any loss, I sure hope he relocates this post string, or his estate administrator/executor-executrix does, and that he or his estate SUE YOU.

Funny, thing is if you can't word-search it on a code CD. You'd have to have a clue other than the ONE way things Might be that you have ASSUMED - and even THAT doesn't fly. Receptacle's Screw plate terminals are limited to 10 AWG max. Kind of blows your 40A or 50A OCPD protected individual branch circuit dedicated for an electric cooktop, wall oven or range just re-mark the conductors instructions and justifications (your foregoing BLATHER), again, now huh? Blather away in circles again, and again, and again.

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

You have no way of knowing IF the circuit in question is actually a dedicated individual branch circuit Peck.

Watson,

Each of us "assumed" one thing:
- *YOU* assumed the circuit was still in use.
- *I* assumed the circuit was not in use.

NEITHER of us has the information needed to verify our "assumptions".

But, at least I am not making a fool out of myself trying to defend my statement as *I* have explained the re-connection of the circuit for the new intended use, and, they will quickly find out whether or not what I am describing can be done with *their* wiring.

Inside, you keep insisting you are correct and going off on tangents, ranting, raving, and making an fool of yourself (which you do on a regular basis because you assume that your assumptions are always correct).

I had no idea that I would generate such a lively discussion with my question..... But I said before and will say again, it has been very informative so thank you to everyone.

Some additional facts: 1.) I am a DIY Home Owner however, I have been working with electronics and radio and computer electronics for 40 years at this point sop pretty aware of wiring basics, but do not have access to NEC code. .

2.) I designed the kitchen and did the wiring for everything that was not already there but had a professional electrician do some wiring for new double oven, etc. .
3.) The branch circuit that supplied the cooktop was a single circuit, dedicated to the cooktop and there were no other connections.
4.) The circuit is currently capped-off and taped and the circuit breaker for that circuit is in the "off position". It has been some time since I have seen it, but it got to the old island via a conduit in concrete which comes up out of the slab. This stub was coiled and taped off and left under the island. I did not remove the circuit breaker and "de-wire" this feed.

I think that is all the new information that I can provide which could potentially help. Again, I appreciate the information provided. I have found a bunch of designs similar to the one originally suggested but no other ones that purported to be designed for kitchen use. The other ones are two to four 3 wire connectors along with data terminals which appear to have been designed for computer data centers.
Gary Jones