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  1. #1
    tabitha hughes's Avatar
    tabitha hughes Guest

    Default Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    Ok in my attic I have replaced a water heater that I know the venting is not up to code. However I have now bought a new evap coil and furnance 95% Aflue.

    I have offers from 1200 to 4500 to install them!! I am sorry but they all say it will take 8 - 10 hours and I refuse to pay anyone 200 - 400 / hour. Ill do it myself and risk blowing up!! One guy came out today and said that my out side drain that I think just goes to my water heater will fail code because the water will have to be moved to a differernt sitem due to a code that states I need to dig a 2 ft hole that encompases 10 ft. covered with pebbles or it will not pass the code. I do not think my evap coil uses the same drain but I havent looked at it that close. Anyone ever heard of this?

    He also mentioned the siver venting throughout the house from the attic, something noone has commented on, and said they will need to be changed/ moved or whatever. He said he would send his tech out to give me an estimate on putting it all in.

    I do want this permitted, but the code guy I talked to said that the person who puts it in should call, and that I should not pay him until I get the green tag. I have seen stuff on the internet that says its the homeowner that is responsible for making sure the code and permit is done, but this guy said the contractor should pull it. I dont understand this either id rather him come out tell me what is needed and the I will make sure the contractor does it, and he can come check it again before I pay him.

    Exery one who has looked has given me differnt prices, things they will need above and beyound the units, and they are all over the place.


    These are very expensive units and I dont want them put in wrong or ruinred.

    Another ex. is I do not plan to change the outside codenor due to money, ot runs R22, I have conflicting stories about wheter if say in a year I get the new outside condensor whether or not I will have to change the coil again. Some say no and some say yes!! Antone know what is the truth??

    Any help/Advice will be appreciated. I really need help here.

    Tabitha

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    Procedures vary from state to state.
    Typically it is the responsibility of the home owner to insure the contractor has obtained the required permits. It is the responsibility of the contractor to obtain the actual permits since they are doing the work and are responsible to know and follow code requirements.

    The code enforcement person you spoke with is not in the position to teach you what the codes are and how to apply them. He also is not able to teach you how to install the HVAC system and meet manufacture specifications.

    He is there to inspect what has been done. Not supervise the job.

    Typically (not all) jurisdictions allow home owners to perform the work themselves which then puts the homeowner in the position of the contractor and the person to obtain the permits. Then the homeowner must be knowledgeable about what is required and how to perform the work correctly.

    If you are getting conflicting requirements for the work desired, you need to find one that you can trust to provide you with what is really required and the associated costs.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    Give Billy Stephens a call. He's just a 1/2 a mile from the Mississippi bridge.

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...-stephens.html

    Last edited by John Kogel; 07-25-2012 at 10:36 AM.
    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    Quote Originally Posted by tabitha hughes View Post
    Another ex. is I do not plan to change the outside codenor due to money, ot runs R22, I have conflicting stories about wheter if say in a year I get the new outside condensor whether or not I will have to change the coil again. Some say no and some say yes!! Antone know what is the truth??
    You should change both units, that is the only way you will get the SEER rating which is required ... okay, *almost* the only way ... if the unit *not* being replaced is new enough, it is *possible* (but not necessarily probable) that it may not need to be replaced.

    Go here: AC Search

    Enter the indoor unit model number where it says to, then enter the outdoor unit model number where it says to, then enter the code it displays, than click on search. No need to enter the manufacturer's name as it will search for those model numbers.

    The search results will tell you if the system meets the required minimum of 13 SEER.

    If the existing system is an R-22 refrigerant system, it is unlikely that you will get a match with a newer unit and that older unit.

    Some contractors will tell you that they can buy and install a "dry" unit, meaning that it contains no refrigerant, and somehow they think that eliminates the need to meet the 13 SEER minimum requirement - installing a "dry" unit does not such thing, it still much match the other unit and match for at least a 13 SEER.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Give Billy Stephens a call. He's just a 1/2 a mile from the Mississippi bridge.

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...-stephens.html
    .
    Watch it Sucka !
    .

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    I can see why you're confused.

    Let's set the record straight on something because there seems to be differing opinions on this; you're not required to do anything so far as upgrades or refrigerant types are concerned- those restrictions have been set for the manufacturers.

    If you find an old 8 SEER unit and want to install it, go right ahead. The R-22 inside will work just fine too. You won't likely find one, but to suggest that efficiency requirements are on you the homeowner is inaccurate.

    $1200 to do the install isn't out of line at at. $4500 is crazy- make sure to put those guys on the "never call for any reason" list.

    Now for the biggest question- can you replace the indoor coil utilizing the old condenser with R-22 without causing major expense later-

    Yes you can. There are coils available at every distributor that accept both types of refrigerant. If you ever switch, they could be properly evacuated and reutilized and all that has to change the the nipple that regulates the flow into that coil.

    But even if you couldn't...who cares! Coils are cheap, and we have no idea what the efficiency of your future condenser might be. Fix it when you can, make it last as long as possible, and we'll see what the future brings.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    These are very expensive units and I dont want them put in wrong or ruined.
    .

    Since you stated that, I would agree it's good advice. Every time someone tries to save a few bucks up front and take a shortcut, they end up spending more money & time and have more hassles down the road.

    Find a reputable dealer/installer in your area.
    Ask your neighbors, ask your friends, ask your family, ask your co-workers, check Angie's List, etc.
    Buy equipment from a trusted source that backs up their own work.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino View Post
    .

    Since you stated that, I would agree it's good advice. Every time someone tries to save a few bucks up front and take a shortcut, they end up spending more money & time and have more hassles down the road.

    Find a reputable dealer/installer in your area.
    Ask your neighbors, ask your friends, ask your family, ask your co-workers, check Angie's List, etc.
    Buy equipment from a trusted source that backs up their own work.
    .
    Good Advice Dom other than the HVAC Houses here will not sell units to individuals so I'm guessing these are used units and the OP is dealing with freon jockeys and not true installers.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Thornberry View Post
    I can see why you're confused.

    Let's set the record straight on something because there seems to be differing opinions on this; you're not required to do anything so far as upgrades or refrigerant types are concerned- those restrictions have been set for the manufacturers.

    If you find an old 8 SEER unit and want to install it, go right ahead. The R-22 inside will work just fine too. You won't likely find one, but to suggest that efficiency requirements are on you the homeowner is inaccurate.
    Maybe where you are, but where I am, in Florida EVERY replacement and EVERY installation REQUIRES: 1) load calculations be done to show that the size being installed is not oversized or undersized; 2) that you have inspected all ductwork with at least 30" of headroom and have sealed up or replaced any bad joints and bad duct; 3) the units being installed must be 3rd party certified (thus you use the AHRI site to find out) that the units are matched and provide at least a 13 SEER minimum (yes, one could hire a mechanical engineer to evaluate the units and get that 3rd party certification).

    The requirement is just be reduced to be limited to "residential" as doing a load calculation on, say an entire Big Box Store just to replace one of the units is a bit cumbersome and expensive - so commercial is being removed by making that applicable only to "residential" units and installation.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    tabitha hughes's Avatar
    tabitha hughes Guest

    Default Re: Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    Thanks for all yor help , Yes I was able to buy the units from the local place here for a good price, about the same as on line. That was easy. Johnstone I guess knew the guy, however after calling the coding office they looked him
    up and said he was not licened. Oh well! Then I asked him about some of these questions like the new nonseptic line for the coil. He told me I didnt even need a concentric venting kit for the 95% unit , which I know I have to have. Then he is not able to get it permitted ,,, So I believe he is not licenced. And I am not going to give him the job. I found a guy I do trust to do it correct and said he would look into this coil line thing, running into the septic line verses making the correction. He is putting it in tomorrow AM so I really hope he keeps to his word.

    I really wanted new plumnums since the ones up there could be 25 years or older! He said that he was going to insulate them to save me money rather then put new ones in. Is that ok? Im just so scared that I might have made another wrong discision. My brother reccommended this guy and he does have a licence to change freon and other things. If anyone gets this please respond ASAP. My email is Drtabby4@aol.com and will be watching all day tomorrow. Thanks for all your help, thus far.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Crazy code requirements: New coil and Furnance

    Quote Originally Posted by tabitha hughes View Post
    Yes I was able to buy the units from the local place here for a good price, about the same as on line. That was easy.
    You just thought that was easy.

    Your situation IS EXACTLY WHY YOU SHOULD NOT have bought those items.

    You want to the contractor who installs the items to supply the items, otherwise when something does not fit right or does not work right, it is ... 'not my fault, I did not supply those items, you did, I would have supplied ones that fit together right' (or something to that effect).

    You have learned an expensive lesson - that you did not save any money, and in fact, by the time you are done, you will probably have paid more than if the contractor provided the equipment, plus the there would have been one person responsible for the installation: the contractor.

    As it is now, you may never get those installed like you want them because if there is *any* problem ... it is *your* problem, not the contractors problem.

    I am surprised that you are even able to get licensed contractors to install those units you supplied ... oh, wait, you can't get a licensed contractor to do it ... see what I am saying?

    "My brother reccommended this guy and he does have a licence to change freon and other things."

    Uh-uh ... another 'not properly licensed contractor' ... you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, all to save a few bucks.

    I think you need to put those two items on display as "art work" and just do what you should have done to start with - hire a contractor to install new units and the contractor provides the units.

    I find it hard to believe that they even sold you the units when you are not licensed - did they think you were going to put them in and charge the system with refrigerant?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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