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Thread: AC or MC usage

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    Matt Miller's Avatar
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    Default AC or MC usage

    I am looking for a reference regarding the use of AC or MC Cables to make an extension cord or a cord for equipment to be plugged into a receptacle. Can I use this type of cable to make cords?

    Thanks
    Matt

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    Default Re: AC or MC usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Miller View Post
    I am looking for a reference regarding the use of AC or MC Cables to make an extension cord or a cord for equipment to be plugged into a receptacle. Can I use this type of cable to make cords?

    Thanks
    Matt
    No, you would need flexible cord for that, and make sure you use the proper type of flexible cord for your use.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Matt Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: AC or MC usage

    Is there a specific code I can reference? Manufacturers specs?


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    Default Re: AC or MC usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Miller View Post
    Is there a specific code I can reference? Manufacturers specs?
    Not likely since these are not the intended applications. On the other hand, this used to be commonly done by contractors for job-site use and I have one myself.

    Mark Fisher
    Allegany Inspection Service - Cumberland MD 21502 - 301-722-2224
    Home Inspections, Mold Testing, Thermal Imaging

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    Default Re: AC or MC usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Miller View Post
    Is there a specific code I can reference? Manufacturers specs?

    Why would you want or need to reference a code?
    NEC 110.3(B)
    - 110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
    - - (B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: AC or MC usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Why would you want or need to reference a code?
    NEC 110.3(B)
    - 110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
    - - (B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
    Does the NEC even cover appliances? If I'm reading the OP correctly, he's making an extension cord or other cord and plug to be attached to an appliance, not installed within a structure. I think it's also safe to presume that any such cord made would not be listed either. There are some things that would be covered under the NEC - such as creating a cord and plug for a water heater - but it seems to me that making an extension cord from a piece of BX might very well be stupid, but not fall under the jurisdiction of the code.


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    Default Re: AC or MC usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Corn Walker View Post
    Does the NEC even cover appliances? If I'm reading the OP correctly, he's making an extension cord or other cord and plug to be attached to an appliance, not installed within a structure. I think it's also safe to presume that any such cord made would not be listed either. There are some things that would be covered under the NEC - such as creating a cord and plug for a water heater - but it seems to me that making an extension cord from a piece of BX might very well be stupid, but not fall under the jurisdiction of the code.
    A semi-valid argument ... ummm 'semi-valid, does that make it a salid argument (as in a salad argument where things are mixed together)?

    "Does the NEC even cover appliances?"

    Yes, not, maybe, sometimes, it depends (but not Depends).
    - ARTICLE 422 Appliances
    - - 422.3 Other Articles.
    - - - The requirements of Article 430 shall apply to the installation of motor-operated appliances, and the requirements of Article 440 shall apply to the installation of appliances containing a hermetic refrigerant motor-compressor(s), except as specifically amended in this article.
    - - 422.16 Flexible Cords.
    - - - (A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration or (2) to facilitate the removal or disconnection of appliances that are fastened in place, where the fastening means and mechanical connections are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance or repair and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Matt Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: AC or MC usage

    Thank you all for your input.
    I was recently conducting an audit of a manufacturing facility. They had a piece of manufacturing equipment plugged into a receptacle using a "shop made" extension cord. The cord was made of armored cable.
    It didn't look kosher to me, however I wanted to be able to reference why they shouldn't use it.


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    Default Re: AC or MC usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    A semi-valid argument ... ummm 'semi-valid, does that make it a salid argument (as in a salad argument where things are mixed together)?

    "Does the NEC even cover appliances?"

    Yes, not, maybe, sometimes, it depends (but not Depends).
    That's kinda what I meant. There are things the NEC covers - electrical supply, electrical distribution, non-portable appliances such as the water heater example I provided. But as near as I can tell - and it's been a while since I've practiced the dark arts of electrical wiring (other than on my own home and those of friends and family) so my knowledge has lapsed - my hair dryer and home-made BX extension cord I use to plug it in are not covered.

    I don't intend for my examples to be exhaustive, merely representative and to tease apart the distinction between supplying power to an appliance that could be considered "built-in" vs all the other myriad ways to abuse electricity out there (grounding conductor? anti-short bushing? never heard of 'em. this extension cord will be just fine).


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    Default Re: AC or MC usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Miller View Post
    Thank you all for your input.
    I was recently conducting an audit of a manufacturing facility. They had a piece of manufacturing equipment plugged into a receptacle using a "shop made" extension cord. The cord was made of armored cable.
    It didn't look kosher to me, however I wanted to be able to reference why they shouldn't use it.
    Matt,

    The problem becomes the plug.

    Without the plug, they could use AC or MC to connect the equipment to from the junction box. The AC or MC, or even FMC (Flexible Metal Conduit), is allowed to be used for isolation of the equipment for vibration isolation. Simply properly connect one of them to the equipment junction box, route to the supply junction box, and, with the FMC pull in the proper conductors for that location and use.

    The plug needs to go on a suitable flexible cord.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: AC or MC usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Miller View Post
    Thank you all for your input.
    I was recently conducting an audit of a manufacturing facility. They had a piece of manufacturing equipment plugged into a receptacle using a "shop made" extension cord. The cord was made of armored cable.
    It didn't look kosher to me, however I wanted to be able to reference why they shouldn't use it.
    I am looking for a reference regarding the use of AC or MC Cables to make an extension cord or a cord for equipment to be plugged into a receptacle. Can I use this type of cable to make cords?

    Thanks
    Matt
    Is there a specific code I can reference? Manufacturers specs?
    The National Electric Code, NFPA 70. See also NFPA 79, Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery.

    Of course you've told us nothing about the "manufacturing equipment", the facility itself, the electrical system(s), the operations at the facility, the conditons/environment of the facility, you haven't told us anything.

    In re NFPA 70, See Sections:

    400 (Flexible Cords and Cables) and 406 (Receptacles, Cord Connectors, and attachment Plugs {Caps}. Section 110, and possibly 409 (Industrial Control Panels) & 670 (Industrial Machinery).

    Use of AC is dictated by 320, Use of MC is dictated by 330, the manufacturers' markings & instructions, and their LISTINGs.

    A multitude of other sections might apply to the ambiguous information...
    Industrial equipment of unknown character, location conditions unknown, disconnect and emergency stop provisions unknown necessity or existance. Unknown availability of differing phase, frequency; unknown needs for protection conditions of use and protection personnel safety.

    We do not know if this equipment is portable by hand while working, etc.

    The OPs 3 posts tell us nothing. i.e. Refrigerating Equipment, Phase Converters, Transformers, Welding , higher voltages, crains, hoists, etc.

    Unknown industrial environment, i.e. Location, Dry - Damp - Wet, Classified, food processing, pharma, Spray application, dipping, coating processes, induction/dielectric heating, electro plating, x-ray, etc.


    What kind of "audit" (safety, loss-control, WC catigorization, Industry, Tax, Classification, Asset/collateral, Regultory/Compliance, Other???) and WHY would YOU be telling "them" what is "wrong", directly, and under what authority or condition??? and why posted in the Questions from Home Owners, Home Buyers, and DIYers" section?


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