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  1. #1

    Default Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    This patio cover was recently built and the contractor gave us false information to every question that was raised about it, so like any stupid consumer, we believed him. Not till after the fact did we start learning that several points were not correct. The rafters are tied to the fascia board which we learned was bad building practices, the osb boards are sagging and have gaps, the 6x6 were supposed to presure-treated but we are really unsure about that, if they were or not, but they have begun to crack. The roof was constructed with a angle that goes back toward the house and doesn't allow for runoff. And we believe the shingles were put on incorrectly. These are all assumptions that we need verified. But any comments stating facts if the structure is useful or does it need to come down and rebuilt.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    My thoughts to start with:
    OSB joints not staggered and no H-clips used.
    Ridge beam going to house roof was not supported correctly.
    OSB only spanning 24 inches in many places.
    Shingle not woven back into house shingle.
    Pitch in areas is insufficient for shingle used.
    Do have issues with how attached to rafter ends of main roof.

    First thought is that the roof deck will need to be removed and redone.
    Then the framing evaluated (reworked).
    Attachment to house evaluated for correct attachment and support.
    And so on-------.

    It is a mess. May be salvageable and correctable. Get a better contractor onto job.
    And yes you will have problems if it rains and real problems if you get any snow.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    looks like a typical Texas
    no plan
    no permit
    no performance
    build to me

    hire a local inspector that knows framing, wood species, shingle application, code and best building practices they should be capable of addressing any and all concerns and answers to your questions

    there are many inspectors in Texas so choose wisely, going cheap won't get you the best and you've already been burned once, don't do that again

    some here may even have a recommendation for your area, try calling

    Last edited by BARRY ADAIR; 08-31-2012 at 05:26 AM.
    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    There are too many issues to list. Unfortunately because of the design and materials used it will be more cost effective to start over. If not redone at least removed because if left as is it will create problems with the house that didn't exist before the porch roof was added.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    looks like a typical Texas
    no plan
    no permit
    no performance
    Well, being it's Texas and all, it could have been permitted.

    Removal and proper re-construction by a competent contractor with a permit from the municipality is recommended.

    Texas Inspector
    http://www.texasinspector.com
    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    I only looked at pic 5, and can tell you that is some of the worst work I've ever seen on a roof.

    Demolish it and start over from the ground.

    Run that contractor out of town on a rail. Use one of those rafters with nails sticking out of it.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  7. #7

    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    Thanks for everyone of you that has responded to this thread with your insight and knowledge. I feel like an idiot that I allowed to happen to me. It is a costly lesson to learn. For gp, we are taking him to small claims court, but we know how that system works. I wish I could show him ya'lls responses, that would be all the satisfication I really need. He says "he stands by his work". But the dilemma I have is hiring a true professional that knows what is wrong with this and write a report that I can present to the judge. I'm not sure if pictures presented to the judge will be enough to sway his descision that it is just repairable or does it need to come down. I feel that it is just throwing good money after bad, because I will never see any of this money again anyway.

    Thanks again,
    Patrick


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    What a mess. I would call it a tear off and a rebuild (properly).

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    Get an unbiased opinion and written report from an inspector who is willing to stand up in court with you. Then get a real contractor to give an estimate to fix the problem.
    Then get the city building inspector to come look at it and put the deficiencies in writing (be aware they will likely make you demolish this if no permit was obtained and will likely fine you in the process.
    Then give all of the above to the judge.
    If this is too expensive or you are afraid the contractor has no money (i.e. judgment proof) then skip all of the above and hire a competent contractor to fix the mess while obtaining the proper permits.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  10. #10

    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    As others have said this is a complete re-do!
    You may be able to save the rafters for reuse.
    Look for someone local (long history with years of experience and references) who can evaluate the mess and give you an estimate on what they can save and the cost to re-build.
    Make sure you get all permits needed.
    Take the previous contractor to court with the results.
    Take lots of photos of the removal that will show even more details.

    Jeff Zehnder - Home Inspector, Raleigh, NC
    http://www.jjeffzehnder.com/
    http://carolinahomeinspections.com/

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    If you do not want to spend the money on an attorney you can always take the contractor SOB to small claims court, depending on the cost of the job $10K or less. Then hire a competent inspector with expert consultation experience and code certification, get a report, and take it to the JP's court. You will certainly prevail. If in the DFW contact me at aaron@texasinspector.com

    Texas Inspector
    http://www.texasinspector.com
    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    If they could only haul that to the county fair and enter it into the patchwork quilt contest ... I bet they'd take the Blue Ribbon hands down, no competition.

    Unfortunately, though, that is not what they were trying to do.

    I agree with the others - take it off and start over, first with engineering, plan approval through the building department, inspections, and all that stuff that Texas is not known for.

    The Texas guys here can offer the best advice as they know Texas and how it works (and how it doesn't work - your photos being excellent examples of that).

    Do you live near Aaron? I bet Aaron would have those guys on the BBQ before lunch and, at a slow simmer, I've been told, might taste just like BBQ chicken, invite the neighbors over, can't have any evidence of them left behind, can we.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    I only had to look at the first picture to think "tear it down".

    Matt Kiefer, Columbus Advanced Inspections
    Home Inspection Columbus Ohio
    Radon Testing Columbus Ohio

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    DO not under any circumstances use the fireplace in the home OR the "outdoor" one. The entirety of this "addition" appears to be endanger of collapse, and compromising the original structure and occupancy.Get a licensed engineer out there to evaluate and specify a plan to safely demolish this abortion, without further endangering the original home. Follow-up to re-evaluate after removal.Expect the authority or fire marshal very well might revoke occupancy and condemn the entirety.Consult an attorney PDQ. Amongst myriad concerns, "unclean hands".


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Moehringer View Post
    This patio cover was recently built and the contractor gave us false information to every question that was raised about it, so like any stupid consumer, we believed him. Not till after the fact did we start learning that several points were not correct. The rafters are tied to the fascia board which we learned was bad building practices, the osb boards are sagging and have gaps, the 6x6 were supposed to presure-treated but we are really unsure about that, if they were or not, but they have begun to crack. The roof was constructed with a angle that goes back toward the house and doesn't allow for runoff. And we believe the shingles were put on incorrectly. These are all assumptions that we need verified. But any comments stating facts if the structure is useful or does it need to come down and rebuilt.
    I agree with the others. Looks like no engineering, unknowlegable contractor, no permit. In the end it's still "buyer beware". Take lots of pictures, every angle, show receipts for payment to contractor. Make a complaint to the licensing board in Texas ( in So. Cal. we're licensed by the Department of Consumer Affairs). You can make a claim for "substandard workmanship" with his liabilty insurance company if he has one.

    Expert Mobile & Manufactured Home Inspections O.C. & San Diego Co.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Filian View Post
    I agree with the others. Looks like no engineering, unknowlegable contractor, no permit. In the end it's still "buyer beware". Take lots of pictures, every angle, show receipts for payment to contractor. Make a complaint to the licensing board in Texas ( in So. Cal. we're licensed by the Department of Consumer Affairs). You can make a claim for "substandard workmanship" with his liabilty insurance company if he has one.

    Expert Mobile & Manufactured Home Inspections O.C. & San Diego Co.
    Nope, no licensing board in Texas to cover that mess.
    Small claims is likely the best bet but still it is doubtful the guy has any money or insurance and is thus "judgement proof."

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    Simply "WOW" and I thought I have seen a lot...

    I noticed that you said he "Stands by his work" but not "Under his work"

    Agreed, I can't see how to fix this, it would cost the same, if not more, to fix it, than to tear it down, rebuild it, and make it look good.

    Just a real quick idea of my thinking, you are removing the roof, shingles and sheating, (tip of the iceberg) in order to restructure it, which would involve more lumber. With the pitch towards the house you are adding more lumber to correct that and it just becomes cost prohibitive to do it this way, easier and faster (cost wise) to just pull it down, and I hate having to go to that extreme.

    This is just a turd that canít be polished.


  18. #18
    TCattell's Avatar
    TCattell Guest

    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    Please, don't use craigslist for your next contractor!!!


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    OMG! says it all...


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Moehringer View Post
    This patio cover was recently built and the contractor gave us false information to every question that was raised about it, so like any stupid consumer, we believed him. Not till after the fact did we start learning that several points were not correct. The rafters are tied to the fascia board which we learned was bad building practices, the osb boards are sagging and have gaps, the 6x6 were supposed to presure-treated but we are really unsure about that, if they were or not, but they have begun to crack. The roof was constructed with a angle that goes back toward the house and doesn't allow for runoff. And we believe the shingles were put on incorrectly. These are all assumptions that we need verified. But any comments stating facts if the structure is useful or does it need to come down and rebuilt.

    I'm just about speechless. The only comment I have to offer is: get the dog out from under that thing.


  21. #21
    Darrel Hood's Avatar
    Darrel Hood Guest

    Default Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    Nobody is mentioning the elephant in the room. All of the roofs in the photos should be replaced, including much, if not all of the decking. During that process, it would probably be affordable to correctly attach the gable to the original structure.

    The original post sounds like the poster, who claims no expertise, bought the house "as is" without the advice of a person with expertise. This stuff is so obvious that, IMO, the buyer bought the responsibility. I'm not trying to "guess" the legal system; just saying what seems right to me.


  22. #22
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    Cool Re: Is this Patio Cover built correctly? Rafters Tied to fascia Boards -

    I didn't feel good already but this plumb makes me sick. I think I'd be real horny for the name rank and serial number of those con artists and find some way to stop their play acting.


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