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  1. #1
    Art McKenna's Avatar
    Art McKenna Guest

    Default Water heater back draft

    Ok I posted before about air conditioning long story. My old water heat went last week. Put in a new one that has all the beels & whisles back draft sensor and will not run. Now We know the old one was not venting out but work still run. After same reach found thisit is located right across from hood.

    A vent connector located directly across from a fan. Most newer furnaces have an induced draft fan that is designed to pull the exhaust gases out of the heat exchanger. This fan ends up 'pushing' the exhaust gases up the vent, and if the water heater vent connector is located directly across from where the exhaust gases are directed, the exhaust gases from the water heater get pushed right back down. The water heater doesn't stand a chance of drafting properly with this configuration.

    Is there any way to fix this? I will take pictures today, All I want for Xmas is to fix this after five + years. Of dealing with this and a lot of money to people that didn't find this problem.

    Thanks Joe

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
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    869

    Default Re: Water heater back draft

    Have a qualified HVAC technician check that the vent is made up correctly and is clear.

    If all else fails or has failed call the manufacturer.

    For the sake of whomever lives in the building, do not allow anyone to bypass any safety features.

    Last edited by Steven Turetsky; 12-22-2012 at 11:24 AM.
    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    2,303

    Default Re: Water heater back draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Art McKenna View Post
    Ok I posted before about air conditioning long story. My old water heat went last week. Put in a new one that has all the beels & whisles back draft sensor and will not run. Now We know the old one was not venting out but work still run. After same reach found thisit is located right across from hood.

    A vent connector located directly across from a fan. Most newer furnaces have an induced draft fan that is designed to pull the exhaust gases out of the heat exchanger. This fan ends up 'pushing' the exhaust gases up the vent, and if the water heater vent connector is located directly across from where the exhaust gases are directed, the exhaust gases from the water heater get pushed right back down. The water heater doesn't stand a chance of drafting properly with this configuration.

    Is there any way to fix this? I will take pictures today, All I want for Xmas is to fix this after five + years. Of dealing with this and a lot of money to people that didn't find this problem.

    Thanks Joe
    Is that a quote from somewhere? I don't understand because a furnace with a induction fan does not have a vent connector. Do you have some pictures of your furnace and water heater?

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Water heater back draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Is that a quote from somewhere? I don't understand because a furnace with a induction fan does not have a vent connector. Do you have some pictures of your furnace and water heater?
    An inducer fan is NOT a Power Vent! It does not "push" (positive) flue gasses (venting becomes gravity/negative as vent is primed & drafting).

    There are critical RULES to follow regarding common venting or manifolding of fuel-fired appliances.

    Your (unshared in this topic discussion) HIGH VOLUME of exhausting air in your unseparated commercial space requires multiple CRITICAL calculations.



    TO the Oringal Poster:

    As I recall you're DIYing numerous system fixes to your COMMERCIAL (resturant/diner) space. You need to STOP doing this and HIRE LICENSED PROFFESSIONALS and GET PERMITS and have PROPER INSPECTIONS and SERVICE!!!

    Critical before you kill, injure someone and/or have a fire. Your Imdenity will NOT cover the liability.

    As usual you do NOT provide even the MINIMUM information to even BEGIN to address your request, and the history shared previously, it is MOST UNWISE for you to proceed in this manner.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
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    4,086

    Default Re: Water heater back draft

    Folks, Commercial Kitchen, Dinning room, HUGE deficiencies in everything, cu. ft.; depressurization, failure to provide: sufficient (fresh) ventillation air, SUFFICIENT make-up air, combustion air, & dillution air. MULTITUDE commercial appliances, combustion & fan! DO NOT GET SUCKERED INTO THIS MESS!!! A public space, employees, and he's still tinkering and not getting PROFESSIONALS in there to do even the most basic OF CALCULATIONS.

    "Art McKenna" of Unidentified location:

    STOP the DIY crap - GET (PAY$$$) FOR AN ENGINEER TO DESIGN A SOLUTION, USE LICENSED PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS & PULL PERMITS, GET INSPECTIONS!! PAY the ENGINEER TO REVIEW THE WORK OF THE CONTRACTORS (and stop tinkering with non-commercial mechanicals in commercial kitchen/dinning room space!). STOP this RECKLESS, stupendous behavior! Your cheapness is likely to get someone injured or killed.

    You OBVIOUSLY don't "get it"...you fail to provide even the LEAST bit of information required to even BEGIN, and has been proven before, explaining ANYTHING to you is USELESS. You have been told MANY TIMES to get PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING ASSISTANCE.

    Yet you continue to post nonsense, withhold VITAL information, and lure unsuspecting folks to post...(unknown peril!) Criminal liability...ENOUGH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Art McKenna View Post
    Major problem

    The whole story is this is a Restaurant well in aug. 2009 the old three ton died switch never really worked anyway. We were happy the landlord told the installer to put in two more tons. He didn't want anymore problem with Us. Well the guy put in the system end of 2009 weather changed never got to test it. 2010 the system didn't work He called installer the installer came in and told my landlord I had to many refrigator compressors. Only two are commerial one two door reach in and a salad unit. We were told to put up curtains and close the kitchen door. Still the best my dining room 84 kitchen 122 degress. Which I had to stay up so the landlord put in a 15000 btu window unit. Well it still didn't work so one of my customers had a friend come in to look at the system. And the guy questioned the size of coil told the landlord and the installer said that the coil was for a 4 or 5 ton unit. So another year goes by and summer again We added two more 12000 btu portables to the space also so I called national grid they sent a engerier in He found the make up air We didn't know We had and made a Us put in two more 6 inch returns. System still didn't work so I keep seaching for a answer and a guy said put a fan in the atic to take heat out would give me more air in Restaurant. It didn't work so the search went on another customer decided to look at system and questioned the coil again,. This time I had it in writing that it was a 4 ton coil. He still told my landlord It was a 4 or 5 ton coil BUT THE MANUFACTOR HAS HAD PROBLEMS WITH THAT COIL. I know a coil has no moving parts it either leaks or it doesn't.So We finally get them to put in the right coil the system does work alot better. But leaks from different places in the dining room. Well the seach goes on so thge Landlord called in a engernier and just got a call the report was back. And they said My toaster was taking up a ton of air and My warmer were taking up a ton of air. So the search goes on that is why I asked about return We have one large on the floor 25 by 25 going into a 10 inch to the unit(???!!!) . Now the landlord said something about adding another 5 tons to the system. If you email me You can take a look at what I am talking about. I just think at this point if there are the right return and supply the system should work what do You guy think about this story?
    Not even close to the "whole" story...you are without a clue. Sorry if that "seems" harsh, it is incredible you are back again and continuing to pull the same crappola...

    Quote Originally Posted by Art McKenna View Post

    I'm sorry I was looking for answers to questions. I don;t know as far bringing a pro in . That is not cheap, it should have been done right in the first place. And it would have if the guy didn't clean out his garage. The heater is GE coil was whirlpool now Nutone and the compressor nutone. So now who do You call when it doesn't work? If it was all one system You call company they come check spec find out thier equipment is working to spec. Than they look for orther problems. As my toaster it only on Sat and Sunday morning. And when they calulate heat load is that full on at all times? Six burner stove only two hands. Grill work with one burner have two fryalator but only run one so how is it figuired out, Ice machine only run at nite.
    Stop. Get a Systems Engineer HE WILL FIGURE IT OUT, then DO WHAT HE SAYS.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 12-22-2012 at 02:39 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    552

    Default Re: Water heater back draft

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    ..........

    You OBVIOUSLY don't "get it"...you fail to provide even the LEAST bit of information required to even BEGIN, and has been proven before, explaining ANYTHING to you is USELESS. You have been told MANY TIMES to get PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING ASSISTANCE.
    Yet you continue to post nonsense, withhold VITAL information, and lure unsuspecting folks to post...(unknown peril!) Criminal liability...ENOUGH!
    Not even close to the "whole" story...you are without a clue. Sorry if that "seems" harsh, it is incredible you are back again and continuing to pull the same crappola...
    Stop. Get a Systems Engineer HE WILL FIGURE IT OUT, then DO WHAT HE SAYS.
    Good pickup H.G. As I was reading it I felt there was "something" left out. The "situation" did not ring true as stated.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sparks,NV
    Posts
    109

    Default Re: Water heater back draft

    Many water heater that are natural draft have a draft hood on top. Inside this draft hood is plate that will divert wind out the side and not through the turbulator down the the flame. The furnace does add a small amount of positive pressure in the vent when the inducer fan comes on. Once the burners kick and heats up the flue goes under negative pressure. Try using smoke or a mirror at the water heater draft hood to see if there is spillage for more than a min. You can them check it with the furnace on. If that doesn't cause any issue I would start looking at possible negative pressure around the unit that is causing the issue.

    Nevada IOS#1730
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    775-342-4767 www.homecsi.com

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