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  1. #1
    Stevet Wilson's Avatar
    Stevet Wilson Guest

    Default Gaps at the transition between stone veneer and siding

    I am seeing gaps at the transition between stone veneer and siding for a new house I am building with a national builder.

    I am thinking of asking the builder to use foam backer rod and sealant to fill the gaps.

    Any suggestions to fix the gaps.

    Thanks

    Steve

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Southern Vancouver Island
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    Default Re: Gaps at the transition between stone veneer and siding

    There should be flashing along the top of the faux stone.

    You are right to question that workmanship.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Bennett (Denver metro), Colorado
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    Default Re: Gaps at the transition between stone veneer and siding

    The vertical gaps can be caulked, but normally, the mason will marry the stone and mortar to the trim edge and only a fine line will be visible. Heavy use of caulk to fill those large gaps regularly needs maintenance to keep the seal.

    Like John said, there must be flashing on the stone ledge to deter water intrusion behind the stone veneer. At this point, it will require a lot of heavy duty work to install it properly. And there should be a weep screed installed properly at the bottom of the stone work to give a path for water to exit that might somehow get behind the stone veneer.

    Your builder may be from Colorado, because this kind of sloppy work is common here, but builders get away with it because of our dry climate and low humidity. But not so in Connecticut.

    Good luck. My experience is that builders are dragged kicking and screaming to make the proper repairs to that kind of work.

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Gaps at the transition between stone veneer and siding

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevet Wilson View Post
    I am seeing gaps at the transition between stone veneer and siding for a new house I am building with a national builder.

    I am thinking of asking the builder to use foam backer rod and sealant to fill the gaps.

    Any suggestions to fix the gaps.

    Thanks

    Steve
    Typical look for faux stone and wood transitions points. About all they can do outside of scribing and cutting the trim to match(which they will not do or most likely know how to do) is to use a mortar bag (big pastry bag used to fill gaps in stone work) and fill in the gaps with mortar. It looks like this is under porch so if it is the flashing is a moot point. Faux stone is a cousin of stucco, it should have the WRB under the lath that the stone is adhered on.

    You could use backer rod to fill the gaps and then a sanded flexible sealant but I seriously doubt any builder is going to go the this level. Again if it is under cover filling the gaps in with mortar will work fine. Note....If it is exposed to the weather then the backer rod and flexible sealants would be the better route.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  5. #5
    Stevet Wilson's Avatar
    Stevet Wilson Guest

    Default Re: Gaps at the transition between stone veneer and siding

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Builder is saying they will put in mortar in the joints (According to builder some places the gaps are too fine to put in foam backer rods). Because of weather in CT now with below freezing, they want to wait.

    As you can see in the appended pics, the metal roof protects bottom portion of front elevation, but I am concerned about gaps above the metal roof.

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Bozeman, Montana
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    Default Re: Gaps at the transition between stone veneer and siding

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevet Wilson View Post
    Thanks for the feedback.

    Builder is saying they will put in mortar in the joints (According to builder some places the gaps are too fine to put in foam backer rods). Because of weather in CT now with below freezing, they want to wait.

    As you can see in the appended pics, the metal roof protects bottom portion of front elevation, but I am concerned about gaps above the metal roof.

    I can understand waiting for the weather on water based work. I would imagine you would also wait on full payment. Also warranty starts when the work is finished, eh.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Gaps at the transition between stone veneer and siding

    I see paper backed metal lath behind the stone (real stone or faux stone does not matter) and that paper only serves as a bond breaker for the mortar the stone is set with - there should be a drainage plane behind the paper of the paper backed metal lath. Hopefully, the builder installed house wrap behind the paper backed metal lath.

    Then, weep screed needs to be installed at the bottom of the drainage plane and paper backed metal lath, that is what allows the moisture and water which goes through the stone and mortar to gravity drain the water down (gravity always wins) and out.

    One should never (albeit common practice) place mortar next to another type of building material - different expansion, contraction, movement coefficients between the different materials, always use a good quality sealant between dissimilar materials. If the gap is too narrow in some places to install backer rod or bond breaker tape, then the sealant may need to be used without either (not the best idea because the sealant should only adhere to two surfaces, not three surfaces - when sealant adheres only to two surfaces the sealant can stretch, but when the sealant adheres to three surfaces the sealant tears and fails, usually at the worst possible surface or location).

    The temperature needs to be within the temperature rating of the sealant, so have the builder determine what sealant they will use, then make sure NOT to apply the sealant until the temperature is within the rating of THAT sealant, and the temperature is not only for the time of application, the temperature is also for the time of curing, i.e., the sealant may state something like 'Do not apply when temperature is below 40 degrees F or when temperatures below 40 degrees F are anticipated within the next 24-48 hours' or something like to that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Indian Trail NC
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Gaps at the transition between stone veneer and siding

    This is a comment some of us use in NC and we edit as needed for the report depending on actual conditions at time of inspection. Hope this helps.

    "Manufactured stone veneer has been installed on the (list areas) of this house. An inspection of the visible components has revealed that the stone veneer has not been installed in compliance with installation guidelines provided by the Masonry Veneer Manufacturer’s Association (MVMA). A PDF copy of the installation guidelines is available at Masonry Veneer Manufacturers Association.

    Specific problems noted with the visible components include, but may not be limited to: (list all that apply)

    Weep screeds are missing at the base of the wood frame walls.

    Weep screeds are missing at the tops of window and door openings.

    There is no caulk between other materials and the masonry veneer at windows, doors, and adjacent trim.

    The masonry veneer is in contact with the ground.

    The masonry veneer is in contact with paved surfaces.

    The masonry veneer is in contact with roofing materials.

    Kick-out flashings are missing where roof eaves meet the masonry veneer.

    Metal lath is visible between stones, indicating that the proper base coats of mortar were not applied prior to installation of the stone.

    The lack of proper detailing and flashing may result in water penetration behind the siding, resulting in structural damage. The installation of the manufactured stone veneer should be evaluated, compared to the specific installation requirements of the stone manufacturer and the MVMA, and repaired or replaced as deemed necessary by a licensed general contractor or masonry contractor experienced with installation requirements for manufactured stone veneer.

    Please note that because the water resistive barrier , metal lath, and base coat(s) of cement stucco are completely concealed behind the manufactured stone veneer, they cannot be evaluated by a visual inspection."

    Wes Grant
    National Property Inspections
    npiunion@npiwesgrant.com

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