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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Mn
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    2

    Default Gable Lean and Vaulting

    I own a little old cabin and have run into a little trouble with it. I took the ceiling down with hopes of vaulting it and finishing it off with knotty pine. There are no trusses just 2x4s supporting the roof and 2x4s glomed together to nail 4x8 sheets of 1/4 in for the ceiling. The issue is that the gable wall is tilting out a little starting at ceiling level. How can I firm up the gable wall and still vault (12'x22' area) the ceiling? Also, how do I maintain outer wall support while vaulting this room?

    IMG_0179.jpgIMG_0183.jpgIMG_0184.jpgIMG_0191.jpg

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    4,170

    Default Re: Gable Lean and Vaulting

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Engberg View Post
    I own a little old cabin and have run into a little trouble with it. I took the ceiling down with hopes of vaulting it and finishing it off with knotty pine. There are no trusses just 2x4s supporting the roof and 2x4s glomed together to nail 4x8 sheets of 1/4 in for the ceiling. The issue is that the gable wall is tilting out a little starting at ceiling level. How can I firm up the gable wall and still vault (12'x22' area) the ceiling? Also, how do I maintain outer wall support while vaulting this room?

    IMG_0179.jpgIMG_0183.jpgIMG_0184.jpgIMG_0191.jpg
    Please !
    Do Not attempt to remove the ceiling joist without having someone with knowledge look at it first!
    The cost of an engineer or experienced framing carpenter will be well worth it and possibly keep you from causing the cabin to collapse.
    From what I can see, the ceiling joists are also the rater ties which support the roof purlins and keep the walls from spreading due to rafter thrust.
    From what I see, Vaulting the ceiling is not possible without totally redesigning the roof.
    Before you remove any of the structural support you MUST have something to take its place!
    EVERYTHING in your photos except the short 2x4 sections between the ceiling joist that the sheetrock was nailed to IS STRUCTURAL.

    The gable wall needs to be braced laterally but first you need to figure out if it was built out of plumb or if it has moved and why.
    Added with edit: After looking again at your photos, the gable wall does not appear to have been braced diagonally and has likely moved with time (or it will in the future.) A diagonal brace is needed from the base of the wall to the ridge and from the ridge at the top of the wall down to the ceiling joist. This forms an "x" brace down the center of the house parallel to the ridge of the roof. A "rat run" or stiff back will be needed across the ceiling joists to lock them in place with the bottom of the gable walls. This gives the diagonal brace a place to bear in order to resist the horizontal movement of the ridge.

    Please take a look at the diagrams for a visual clue of what I am describing.


    lrg-149-roof-framing-structural-ridge.jpglrg-197-sagging-ridge.jpgRoof_framing_members_1.jpg

    Last edited by Jim Luttrall; 05-08-2015 at 01:32 PM.
    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Mn
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Gable Lean and Vaulting

    Thank you for the reponse Jim.
    In your reponse you included pictures and in the first one shows full legnth studs on the gable end wall. Should that be done in our case? The lean of the wall is from the celing highth to the roof.

    I spoke with a previous owner this weekend and they said the room (12'x22') was pretty open. It had no ceiling, only one rafter tie and no cross-member. It was built in the 1940s or 50s which might explain the structural choices. I appreciate the adice on getting expert on site analysis and am contacting a local builder / remodeler.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Massacusetts
    Posts
    149

    Default Re: Gable Lean and Vaulting

    Chuck , My parents had a similar structure and I have some very sound advice

    Start from Scratch - it is not worth the $ 500-1000 in material that you have there - you would do yourself a big favor and do it right instead of having to bring this up to code. Chances are some of the 2X4 have some really big knots in them too. This was built as a summer place and with age it is getting worse so your better off not putting to much money into it.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Hercules, CA
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Gable Lean and Vaulting

    The sheathing and lumber all appear to be in good shape, so I don't think you need to start over. I suggest that you hire an registered civil/structural engineer, and under his/her direction, do the following:

    1. Replumb and reframe the gable end wall with continuous 2x6 studs at 16" oc, from floor to roof,
    2. Install temporary shoring for the roof,
    3. Add 2x10 or 2x12 (depending on the span) rafters along side the existing rafters with blocking at the ridge,
    4. Install an engineered ridge beam and support posts to a bearing foundation,
    5. Then you can remove the shoring and ceiling joists/rafter ties.


    PS: Don't forget to get a building permit!

    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Gable Lean and Vaulting

    Curious whether or not the cabin is balloon framed? If known.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,251

    Default Re: Gable Lean and Vaulting

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Curious whether or not the cabin is balloon framed? If known.
    Good point.

    When I first reviewed the photos, it looked like it was not, but after your post and re-reviewing the photos, what I thought was daylight and an opening is actually (I think) something handing on the wall - of course, though, that something hanging on the wall could be a sheet over an opening ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Gable Lean and Vaulting

    Looks to be a louvered gable vent.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,251

    Default Re: Gable Lean and Vaulting

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Looks to be a louvered gable vent.
    I'm referring to the item in the 2nd photo just below the level of the ceiling joists - looks like daylight shining in through a window, sheet over a window, or something - maybe a double door, whatever it is it looks wide, which would preclude balloon framing of that wall.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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