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Thread: Wording

  1. #1
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    Default Wording

    I'm just looking for some new/different ways to write "seek further evaluation from whatever contractor applies etc ....
    Wanted to see what/how some of you guys write this.
    thanks

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Wording

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    I'm just looking for some new/different ways to write "seek further evaluation from whatever contractor applies etc ....
    Wanted to see what/how some of you guys write this.
    thanks

    I seem to use "review and repair by a qualified ________ contractor" quite a bit.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wording

    Further attention
    Further review
    Further assessment

    Over the years I've also become more direct about what they should do. For example a furnace that has obviously seen no for service years and has some problem I'd say "Further assessment for general service and repair from an HVAC contractor is recommended."

    It's sad we have to be this direct and hold people's hands but the calls I've had over the years just blow my mind sometimes.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Wording

    Yea, I agree with the advice for having a professional evaluate but do you guys feel it necessary to reflect back to your scope e.g. "there's a problem here...we dont trouble shoot -not within the scope...have a pro look at it...". I'm obviously paraphrasing, but I was just looking at ways to reduce the "what did I call you for then" questions. Thankfully not too often. But there are those who think we're the end all and should spend 2 hours troubleshooting why their air condition doesnt work.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Wording

    "There are signs of water seepage and damage at the floor in front of the master bathroom tub/shower. Determining the extent of any hidden damage is beyond the scope of this inspection. Further contractor evaluation and repair is recommended."

    I like reiterating the "beyond the scope" thing just so there's no misunderstanding.

    I've had some similar calls like you ellude to. If/when a system is just beyond help and has too many problems to realisitically list individually I'll recommended an evaluation of "all aspects of xxx system" or a "complete xxx system evaluation" (I got these from an E/O vendor at a conference years ago as a way to limit our liability).

    Then you get a call from xxx contractor saying, "Uh, what is it you want me to do?" So, I just tell them again


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Wording

    I use KEY words in my report, and have a definition for each on the cover sheet. I use the term "ATTENTION" for the big stuff, or things that need "attention".

    Here is the definition from the cover page:
    ATTENTION - Specific notation is made that issues were found that need to be addressed by competent repair personnel (in most cases a licensed contractor) after full system evaluation as soon as possible.


  7. #7
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wording

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    "There are signs of water seepage and damage at the floor in front of the master bathroom tub/shower. Determining the extent of any hidden damage is beyond the scope of this inspection. Further contractor evaluation and repair is recommended."

    I like reiterating the "beyond the scope" thing just so there's no misunderstanding.

    I've had some similar calls like you ellude to. If/when a system is just beyond help and has too many problems to realisitically list individually I'll recommended an evaluation of "all aspects of xxx system" or a "complete xxx system evaluation" (I got these from an E/O vendor at a conference years ago as a way to limit our liability).

    Then you get a call from xxx contractor saying, "Uh, what is it you want me to do?" So, I just tell them again
    Most of the time I still stick with further eval. It needs further evaluation no matter who is coming to service/repair/rip apart etc. It also tells in a nut shel that you do not pull everything apart or test as deep as an electrician, plumber, wood butcher etc. The have to dig deeper and find out why that breaker keeps tripping. Is it a bad breaker. Did someone put a screw thru a wire. Is the appliance faulty in some way and keeps tripping that breaker. We don't have all day to go over one system and we are not claiming to be an electrician and God knows in many cases there is something deeper than we find on the surface.

    Your legal is write but many on here will dispute the "further evaluation is needed". You are not only telling them the facts because know one is just going to come and fix something because you said so without their own evaluation and you are covering yourself in case something else is found when they do "their own evaluation".

    Write or wrong wording, every contractor is going to evaluate the situation before he or she writes up anything, period. So that phrase is still perfect.


    "There are signs of water seepage and damage at the floor in front of the master bathroom tub/shower. Determining the extent of any hidden damage is beyond the scope of this inspection. Further contractor evaluation and repair is recommended."


    That paragraph tells exactly how it should be told including the evaluation. How else will they determine the extent of damage until the rip it apart. They can give a pretty good guesstimate but further evaluation is done when they rip it apart. They are not reviewing it. There is nothing to review. Reviewing it takes place after they pull it apart and fix it and they are about to get the pay check. Reviewing also takes place before they are doing their own evaluation. They may review with the client what was talked about on the phone but then the reviewing stops and the down and dirty eval takes place.

    Just some thoughts


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Wording

    "Have a qualified xxx inspect and repair or replace the aging framus as needed"

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Wording

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    I'm just looking for some new/different ways to write "seek further evaluation from whatever contractor applies etc ....
    Wanted to see what/how some of you guys write this.
    thanks

    Repair/replace as needed ...

    Forget the "seek further evaluation" stuff.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Wording

    The fewer the words to get the point across the better. Think > less is more.

    I'm starting to like the "Repair/Replace as needed" suggestion.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Wording

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Repair/replace as needed ...

    Forget the "seek further evaluation" stuff.
    Funny you wrote that. I've been using it lately a lot.

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Wording

    Example:
    Roof sheathing shows signs of moisture staining and wood damage in a number of places. Recommend a full evaluation and/or correction(s) by an appropriate professional in the appropriate trade.

    Pretty much covers it and can be used anywhere further evaluation is indicated in your report. "in a number of places" prevents client/contractor from claiming you missed one/some.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Wording

    Someplace at the beginning of the report:
    ==========
    Any recommendations I make to "repair" or "replace" or "fix" means you should consult with a professional in the appropriate field to determine all needed repairs and best repair method, to estimate costs and to perform any repairs deemed necessary.
    ==========

    The kitchen sink faucet leaks. Fix it.

    The toilet in the upstairs hall bathroom is cracked. Replace it.

    The furnace is shot. Replace it.

    The garage door opener won't work. Repair / replace as necessary.
    =====

    Erby Crofutt, Georgetown, KY - Read my Blog here: Erby the Central Kentucky Home Inspector B4 U Close Home Inspections www.b4uclose.com www.kentuckyradon.com
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Wording

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary DeWitt View Post
    Example:
    Roof sheathing shows signs of moisture staining and wood damage in a number of places. Recommend a full evaluation and/or correction(s) by an appropriate professional in the appropriate trade.
    That contains a lot of unnecessary wording and could leave your client hanging when the seller or selling agent bring in their 'hired gun' to dispute you.

    Better stated with fewer words: Roof sheathing shows signs of damage/deterioration in various locations. Replace as needed, including (list some examples).

    Your statement says that the person brought in can "evaluate" what is there and say 'No problems found.' and walk away, leaving your client hanging for those repairs you implied you thought might be needed.

    My statement specifically states to (in this case) "repair" as needed and includes some specific examples. That will make the contractor brought in to at least have to try to talk their way out of not having to do any repairs because you listed some examples and then indicated that those were only a sampling of what was needed.

    As Erby said in his post, all you need to do is define what 'repair' or 'replace' means, and that definition includes that the work be done by an appropriately licensed contractor who is competent to do the work.

    There is no need to repeat that statement at each and every item, in fact, if you do repeat it at each and every item, your client may well ignore it as it is just considered more 'unnecessary blabbering fill'.

    Whenever you write "repair" or "replace" that automatically means "the work be done by an appropriately licensed contractor who is competent to do the work".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Wording

    For example, it it's a leaky older faucet - "Recommend faucet be repaired/replaced as proves cost effective."

    For a roofing system with identified defects, "Recommend evaluation and repair by a roofing professional".

    Our boilerplate states
    Where a condition is identified in this report, no attempt is made to identify each location where it occurs, only to document that the condition is present on the property. Singular may be plural and vice versa. We recommend that you obtain written quotations from a reputable licensed contractor or other qualified professional who has viewed, investigated, and quantified the condition to accurately determine the costs of repair/upgrade/modification prior to closing.


    FYI - to put this in perspective, we do include a lot of pics in the report.

    "the relentless pursuit of perfection"

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Wording

    Does this work?

    Examination and analysis by a qualified professional, tradesman, or service technician is highly advised BEFORE COMPLETING. The aim is to determine the integrity, corrective options, materials, and repair costs. Some further conditions may be uncovered during specialized evaluation which are beyond those provided by a home inspection which complies only to recognized Standards of Practice.

    One Client did this due to a cantilevered patio slab. The soils engineer determined there was a fault line behind the house and the repair would entail the installation of a retaining wall, costing about $110,000.00 CDN ($50,000.00 USD, eh?)


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Wording

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Peake View Post
    For example, it it's a leaky older faucet - "Recommend faucet be repaired/replaced as proves cost effective."
    Question: Why are YOU concerned with "cost effective"? Cost is (to put it bluntly) NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS ... you were doing pretty good up until that part.

    For a roofing system with identified defects, "Recommend evaluation and repair by a roofing professional".
    WHY would you want the roofer to "evaluate" what you already did evaluate(you already did evaluate it, didn't you)? You stated you identified defects, just state that the defects need to be repaired or replaced. I would typically add something to the effect of 'and any other defects found or created during those repairs' because the roofing contractor will have things opened up and will be able to see things you could not, and the roofing contractor may well screw something else up while fixing what you wrote up.

    This stuff is really not that hard, guys.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Wording

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Question: Why are YOU concerned with "cost effective"? Cost is (to put it bluntly) NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS ... you were doing pretty good up until that part.



    WHY would you want the roofer to "evaluate" what you already did evaluate(you already did evaluate it, didn't you)? You stated you identified defects, just state that the defects need to be repaired or replaced. I would typically add something to the effect of 'and any other defects found or created during those repairs' because the roofing contractor will have things opened up and will be able to see things you could not, and the roofing contractor may well screw something else up while fixing what you wrote up.

    This stuff is really not that hard, guys.
    Jerry

    They are giving their opinion. You are giving your opinion. They feel one way. I feel one way. You feel one way.

    Fact is you have 17,000 some odd posts. A very large amount of those posts state that someone differed with your evaluation (right or wrong so lets not get into that). I can guarantee you that the folks that come in behind you after your 120 page report, in many many many cases have differed with you on YOUR evaluation. When they got there they did not just take Jerrys word for it, reviewed the home inspectors findings with the buyer/seller/Realtor, climbed up on the roof, looked at what you pointed out and then did a further evaluation on that roof that had wind damage because there might just be something you did not find.

    They evaluated the work to be done, yours, mine and everyone elses, because there might just be more too it.

    Sometimes evaluate works and some times it does not

    As you said, "This stuff is really not that hard, guys." and that is your opinion and others may vary.

    Also you said "and any other defects found or created during those repairs" They are not going to just show up, climb on the roof with a piece of flashing and six shingles and do what Jerry told them to do, fix it, ever. It absolutely never happens that a brain dead contractor gets a call and is told that the inspector said fix this and they just go there and do it, ever.

    This stuff is really not that hard, guys!

    Just saying.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Wording

    In general terms my reports typically do not require items to be repaired or replaced - not in so many words, anyway. I leave that up to the buyer to request from the seller or simply 'live' with after closing. If a component doesn't work, is defective, broken or hazardous, I call it as I see it. If it's broke, it's broken - if it don't work, it's non-functioning. If the shower stall leaks then I identify the leakage and probable/visible resulting damage. My report doesn't necessarily say it should be repaired but includes what I observed and likely consequences of the current and continuing defect.

    IMO requiring 'defective' items be repaired is over-stepping the responsibilities of an Inspector...I usually, however, discuss the deficiencies with the buyer and if reasonably obvious what the remedy may be. I let them decide what they want done (by the seller) via 'Request for repairs' adendum prior to close.

    Furthermore, specifically identifying an item as "requiring/in need of repair or replacement" in the report (which under CA law is shared with all parties) tends to create adversarial negotiations. No-one can argue with what you see, the argument comes when you begin giving opinions and 'requires repair/replacement' is just that and also to some extent, subjective - valid as it may be.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Wording

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Question: Why are YOU concerned with "cost effective"? Cost is (to put it bluntly) NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS ... you were doing pretty good up until that part.



    WHY would you want the roofer to "evaluate" what you already did evaluate(you already did evaluate it, didn't you)? You stated you identified defects, just state that the defects need to be repaired or replaced. I would typically add something to the effect of 'and any other defects found or created during those repairs' because the roofing contractor will have things opened up and will be able to see things you could not, and the roofing contractor may well screw something else up while fixing what you wrote up.

    This stuff is really not that hard, guys.
    Jerry,
    I've been on the road for a week and just getting back at it. Rockford to visit a friend followed by a visit w/mom in Louisville, then Cincinnati for part of the NAHI Education Conference. 2100 miles round trip, a big triangle ... uggg. The tolls outside Chicago and traffic were horrific.

    Ted's post pretty much covers the reason for my chosen wording.

    As further explanation, the Client may not be aware that "repair" may approach or exceed the cost of "replace". Further, replacement may yield life cycle cost benefits. Another example - repair an old single pane wood window vs replace w/an insulated window? Negotiations with the seller are not within my purview, but as an aside, items such as mentioned above tend to lend themselves well to a price reduction as opposed to a "repair by the seller". How (or if?) to address an item with the seller is for a properly informed Client to decide; not me.

    The old addage, "Where there's smoke, there's usually fire". By recommending evaluation by a professional (in the applicable trade), I'm recommending that the professional not only repair the defects I've seen, but also to look closer (and not necessarily visual only) to thoroughly quantify the situation and identify a complete scope of repairs and associated costs.

    Comments to my posts/comments are usually thought provoking, yours in particular. I'm always looking to improve, so thanks for all comments. I'll be on the road later today and I'm now considering adding some "boilerplate" to further explain both comments.

    "the relentless pursuit of perfection"

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