Fur down or Fir down? - InspectionNews

Jim Luttrall · #1 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 09:04 PM

This may be a regional term, but what is the correct spelling and/or usage for fur down? Meaning the small dropped ceiling to close the gap above cabinets, etc.?
Thanks

Jerry Peck · #2 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 09:15 PM

I always thought it was 'fer down', as in 'how fer down the highway is the next gas station'.

Back to seriousness ...

"Furring"

As in "furring" strips, etc.

Ted Menelly · #3 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 09:17 PM

Soffit

That's what I call it. It fits I guess.

Ted

Hope that worked out for you today

Jim Luttrall · #4 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 09:23 PM

Jerry, I was leaning to Fur Down which I guess is the way I always spelled it until I took a second look. And thought of "Furring strips" but then considered "Fir" like the tree, and started doubting myself.

Ted, I always have considered a soffit to be the flat surface under an overhang as in soffit vents, but I have also heard of that term used interchangeably.

Jim Luttrall · #5 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 09:27 PM

From Wikipedia:

Quote:

Soffit (from French soffite, Italian soffitto, formed as a ceiling; directly from suffictus for suffixus, Latin suffigere, to fix underneath), in architecture, describes the underside of any construction element. Examples of soffits include:

the underside of an arch or architrave (whether supported by piers or columns),
the underside of a flight of stairs, under the classical entablature,
the underside of a projecting cornice, or
the underside of a ceiling to fill the space above the kitchen cabinets, at the corner of the ceiling and wall.

I guess I will start using soffit going by the last definition above.

Jerry Peck · #6 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 09:31 PM

I've always (well, almost "always") heard what you are describing called (like Ted has) "soffits", however, I have also heard the term "fur it down".

To me, "fur it down" indicates 'to close up a small space' or 'to make level', unlike a soffit, which typically closes up a 12" high space.

Ted Menelly · #7 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 09:31 PM

I guess until you but the cabinets up to it, it is a soffit. If you are just furring it down to cover a small gap then that would work as well.

Ted

Billy Stephens · #8 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

--Meaning the small dropped ceiling to close the gap above cabinets, etc.?
Thanks

.
Bulkhead.

Gunnar Alquist · #9 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

I guess until you but the cabinets up to it, it is a soffit. If you are just furring it down to cover a small gap then that would work as well.

Ted

"butt"

Gunnar (the spelling troll)

Ted Menelly · #10 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 10:34 PM

You know. I use the spell check and have for years. I get so use to counting on it that I just punch away and don't even think anymore as in dew, due, do or but, butt. I get bagged all the time.

Ron Bibler · #11 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 10:42 PM

I was thinking

Fur out a wall.
Trim down the cabinet.
Trim out a door.

Best

Ron

Rick Hurst · #12 (**permalink**) 06-25-2008, 06:54 AM

Jim,

From a family of trim carpenters and custom cabinet makers, I can tell you it is called a "furr down". FURR

(the only family member with both thumbs)
rick

John Arnold · #13 (**permalink**) 06-25-2008, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

...'how fer down the highway is the next gas station'. ..

The answer is: " a fur piece".

David Banks · #14 (**permalink**) 06-25-2008, 07:53 AM

From a family of finish carpenters what about the tem "Valance" My father used the term for the piece of wood that covers the track for a closet Bi-fold door.

Thom Walker · #15 (**permalink**) 06-25-2008, 08:33 AM

Also from a family of carpenters. None could spell. That's why they were carpenters. Carpenters don't have to spell; just measure.

If I had asked this question of my Dad or any of his partners in crime, I would have been the brunt of fur jokes for at least a day.

I always assumed it was furr down because of the framing materials. Nobody wanted to waste 2x4s on something that didn't support any weight. As a kid working with him the most common use was to conceal ducts in houses built long before central forced air heat and air.

Darren Miller · #16 (**permalink**) 06-25-2008, 10:29 AM

How about....

The wall needs to be 'padded out' to meet the existing finish.

However, I've always heard "Furred out"

Jim Luttrall · #17 (**permalink**) 06-25-2008, 01:17 PM

Thanks Rick, I needed some trustworthy advice from another native Texan

Quote:

From a family of trim carpenters and custom cabinet makers, I can tell you it is called a "furr down". FURR

Mike Boyett · #18 (**permalink**) 06-26-2008, 10:11 AM

Jim...In Austin, I refer to it also as a "furr down".

Hugh Henley · #19 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 05:47 AM

Gentlemen,

According to Bob Vila, host of the television home-improvement show, This Old House," the term is fir-down. I think Mr. Vila should know what he's talking about.

H.H.
Dallas, Texas

Jerry Peck · #20 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Henley

Gentlemen,

According to Bob Vila, host of the television home-improvement show, This Old House," the term is fir-down. I think Mr. Vila should know what he's talking about.

H.H.
Dallas, Texas

Me thinks someone puts too much faith into an actor - realize that he had other actually do the work, those who knew what they were doing (most of the time anyway).

Hugh Henley · #21 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 09:02 AM

Methinks someone doesn't like Bob Vila and just wants to argue. So, I borrowed my boss's Construction Terminology Dictionary (yes, several of them do exist, but I didn't want to pay 95 bucks for one) and I looked up the term.

The dictionary not only gave the correct term as "fir-down," it gave a history of where the term comes from. As most of us know, in the old days when they were plentiful, fir trees -- especially the huge Douglas Fir -- were often used for ceiling beams. (There are still several Douglas Firs in Oregon's Willamette National Forest that are 300 feet high.) Whenever somebody decided they wanted a dropped ceiling, they would call in the carpenters who would build "from the fir down."

This is perfectly logical -- a fir is a tree; it's wood. "Fur" is something that grows on certain animals and I haven't seen any minks or cats or beavers used in construction lately.

H.H.

Jerry Peck · #22 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 10:58 AM

Go here: Contractor School Online® - Contractor Glossary of Terms
- Furred Ceiling. = A ceiling having spacer elements, usually furring channels, round rods, or wood strips, interposed between it and the supporting structure above.
- Furring Channels. = 3/4 inch cold or hot rolled steel channels used in plaster base construction.
- Furring, Ceiling. = see Ceiling Furring.
- Furring, Channel. = see Channel Furring.
- Furring, Metal. = see Metal Furring.
- Furring, Wood. = see Wood Furring.
- Furring. = 1. Wood or metal strips used to build out a surface such as a studded wall. 2. Narrow strips fastened to the walls and ceilings to form a straight surface upon which to lay the lath or other finish.

And here: RSMeans?
- furred = Provided with furring to leave an air space, as between a structural wall and plaster or between a subfloor and wood flooring.
- firred = No matching terms. Please revise your search. You may wish to try inserting a wildcard character (*) into your search term.

Hugh Henley · #23 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 11:38 AM

Well, Mr. Peck, I guess it's your dictionary against mine. In any case, I've got better things to do than have this argument. I've got to go and do some firring down.

Take care.

HH

PS - By the way, do you do litigation consulting for contractors or homeowners?

Mike Truss Guy · #24 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 01:06 PM

My vote. Fir is a species of wood. Furr down is correct. IMO it means attaching a generally non-structural building element to something to make things look right when finished. In the truss field "Furr down" and "false frame" are generally used interchangeably.

For example this is a scissor truss with a false framed flat ceiling AKA a "furr-down". http://www.trussworksusa.com/images/truss/framing.jpg

Jerry Peck · #25 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Henley

PS - By the way, do you do litigation consulting for contractors or homeowners?

For both.

Either way, I tell it like it is, and document it with the same references.

Gunnar Alquist · #26 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 01:40 PM

Maybe furr is not a word. I searched the Construction Info Exchange dictionary and found furring, but not fur or furr.

http://www.constructioninfoexchange....arySearchKey=A

Of course, this is a silly thread.

Jerry Peck · #27 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist

Maybe furr is not a word. I searched the Construction Info Exchange dictionary and found furring, but not fur or furr.

http://www.constructioninfoexchange....arySearchKey=A

Of course, this is a silly thread.

Gunnar,

Not quite sure why you did this, but that does not contain "fir" or "firr" EITHER???

Jack Feldmann · #28 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 07:50 PM

According to the Means Illustrated Construction Dictionary it's FURRING.
1. Strips of wood or metal fastened to a wall or other surface to even it.
2. lumber 1" thickness (nominal) and less than 4" in width. The most common size of furring is 1x2 and 1x3.

There is also furring brick, furring strip, and furring tile.
The only thing under FIR is softwood.

Gunnar Alquist · #29 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Gunnar,

Not quite sure why you did this, but that does not contain "fir" or "firr" EITHER???

Jerry,

Well, we had already established that fir was a word, if not the right one and I never thought of firr (or ferr, for that matter). But, if you insist...

Jerry Peck · #30 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist

Jerry,

Well, we had already established that fir was a word, if not the right one and I never thought of firr (or ferr, for that matter). But, if you insist...

Likewise, we already knew that "fur" was a word.

Ted Menelly · #31 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 08:57 PM

Hmmm

Soffit or soffite or soffitto. Furr down is what you are doing when building a soffit.

Bunch a Red Necks with the furr down talk

Sorry Bill

Hill Billies

ben jacks · #32 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

For both.

Either way, I tell it like it is, and document it with the same references.

Hi Jerry, You missed a golden opportunity to answering 'fur both'.

Jerry Peck · #33 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben jacks

Hi Jerry, You missed a golden opportunity to answering 'fur both'.

Dang! I sur did.

#34 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

This may be a regional term, but what is the correct spelling and/or usage for fur down? Meaning the small dropped ceiling to close the gap above cabinets, etc.?
Thanks

We call that a Bulkhead here
Hope it helps

Jim Luttrall · #35 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 08:27 AM

Hey guys, this thread was started a year ago and solved to my satisfaction. I will continue to use "furr down." Let's let this one die in relative peace.

BTW - The use of "Bulk head" would get a blank stare around here unless talking to a northerner

Gunnar Alquist · #36 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

Hey guys, this thread was started a year ago and solved to my satisfaction. I will continue to use "furr down." Let's let this one die in relative peace.

BTW - The use of "Bulk head" would get a blank stare around here unless talking to a northerner

Jim,

C'mon, let us have a little fun (fin... fen?). Since Mr. Henley chose to exhume this thread, we decided to waste a little time bantering about.

Jerry McCarthy · #37 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 03:36 PM

"Crown Mold" if you're closing the space between the upper cabinets and the ceiling covering. Anyplace else just means you're a certified wood butcher.

Jerry Peck · #38 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

"Crown Mold" if you're closing the space between the upper cabinets and the ceiling covering. Anyplace else just means you're a certified wood butcher.

WC Jerry,

I haven't seen 12" vertical height crown molding (that would be what, about 18" stuff at the diagonal?), where do you get that at?

That would kind of dwarf a kitchen ceiling too.

Jerry McCarthy · #39 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 04:32 PM

EC Jerry, Where did you get the 12 inches from? I read the original post as any opening between the 12 inch ceiling soffit drop and installation of the upper kitchen cabinets? Crown mold can also be flat as well as beveled. Perhaps I'm losing my alleged mind?

Mike Truss Guy · #40 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 05:13 PM

You Jerry's seem to have your fur all up over this discussion.

Jerry Peck · #41 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 05:25 PM

WC Jerry,

I'm not going to be much help on finding your mind when I have lost track of mine ... now where is ... ????

However, the original post is asking about "fur down" and that would be the soffit, or "El Soffit" in your photo.

The crown molding would go to the ceiling and the soffit.

However, if there was no soffit, then the crown molding would need to fill in that 12" gap.

Jerry McCarthy · #42 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 07:20 PM

Original Post: This may be a regional term, but what is the correct spelling and/or usage for fur down? Meaning the small dropped ceiling to close the gap above cabinets, etc.?
Now I get it and the answer is..... drum roll..... soffit. Now I have never heard the expression "fur down" but can we agree on the expression "soffit." Ah, jeez, why am I going on about something so mundane? I am now surrendering to whatever the group maintains to be the correct and righteous answer.
PS: upon my last gasp, how about “close molding?”……………………Arg….!