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  1. #1
    Jon mackay's Avatar
    Jon mackay Guest

    Default Cracking at newer shingles

    I came across a low slope (2" per foot) roof today that had hairline cracking over most of the roof surface. The interior is a cathedral type ceiling so the ventilation could not be inspected. I was guessing the roof to be 10+ years.

    I was going to report possible manufacturer defect or poor ventilation but thought I would see if there were any other thoughts.

    Thank you
    Jon

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  2. #2
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Pic 3 shows them aged beyond their time. Looks like a southern home by style and roof slope. Looks like a thick beam at the ridge line so a ridge vent probably would not work well. I have seen multiple roof top vents all along both sides of the ridge at almost every bay in those cases. I am sure the age was hastened by the ceiling co figuration and miserable to no ventilation.

    Did you also see drywall finish concerns inside as well. I use to find that as well in Florida. High humidity and all, no ventilation and lousy circulation inside.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon mackay View Post
    I was guessing the roof to be 10+ years.
    Jon,

    Please click on User CP and fill in your location, city and state, makes it easier to know how to respond. Based on the photo and the leaves, you are not in South Florida.

    Even in South Florida, with that heat and sun UV exposure, that looks closer to 12 years. Get into more northern areas and they might be 20 years, in some areas they might not get that way for 30 years.

    You know there was no ventilation, even if there were openings for ventilation, there is no space for ventilation *and* insulation, and with insulation, there is no room for ventilation.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
    Jon mackay's Avatar
    Jon mackay Guest

    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    OK, I have updated my profile, sorry about that.
    I am in New York 1 Hour drive south of Syracuse on the PA border, Not near New York City.


    The shingles on this roof were so cracked, I wasn't sure if I should recommend replacement at this time or if they should just have them checked on a regular basis.
    Either way, the slope design is not good at all and the ventilation is going to be a problem no matter what.
    I did actually see drywall problems at various areas of the ceiling but could not get any of the areas to register any moisture, at least as far as I put the pins in.

    I have not come across anything quite like this before so I want to make sure I do my homework..


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    The roof is toast. It needs to be replaced, you would be doing your client an injustice by telling them to have it checked every now and then. All it will take is a good strong wind and you will start seeing shingles flapping in the breeze. I don't think that I would start trying to state what has caused the problem with the shingles. With a low pitch roof and 3-tab shingles, I would say that you could expect around 12+- years of life out of that type of shingle, like Jerry stated.

    Most of the defective shingles I have seen will have a single split or tear that run perpendicular to the adhesive strip. Sure, you can have other problems but that has been the most common I have seen.

    I would simply tell them that the roof is worn out and needs to be replaced. I might also add that many of the insurance companies might not insure a roof in this condition. Also FHA & VA would most likely gig this roof.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon mackay View Post
    The shingles on this roof were so cracked,
    Jon,

    Stop right there, that statement says enough ... that roof NEEDS to be replaced.

    As Scott said, that roof is toast, and, in fact, that roof was probably toast 10-15 years ago.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Amen brothers. Toast for sure and probably as far past life expectancy as Jerry said. I don't know about toast though. I like toast.

    I did have one more comment. As Jerry said. There is insulation in the roof of course and probably not much air space. But I will add that there is probably some space from settling (all insulation will settle at least some). I would still recommend ventilation. As you said you saw drywall or finish concenrs inside. You will always have that with no ventilation . You probably will never get a high moisture reading but between the heat and what ever moisture there is under the ceiling and the build up above the drywall you will get those concerns and certainly burn the shingles off quicker as well. I have always been a fanatic about proper ventilation and if there is none I would not leave it out of my report at all. A good roofer or contractor will figure out the best ventilation for it.


  8. #8
    Nolan Kienitz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    2/12 is too low of a slope for shingles.

    Regardless ... those are way past their time.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolan Kienitz View Post
    2/12 is too low of a slope for shingles.
    Most, or at least many, shingle manufacturers have special instructions for shingles on slopes down to 2/12 - typically requires, among other things, double the specified underlayment (greater lap of the underlayment, making it into double the normal plies).

    Of course, how to you know if the roofer did that or not at a home inspection?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    Jon mackay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Thank you very much for the comments. Very informative. I will recommend replacement and to ensure the roofer verifies proper ventilation and insulation.
    This will be quite a task since the ceilings are completely finished and all vaulted to the rafters. Yikes!!


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon mackay View Post
    Thank I will recommend replacement and to ensure the roofer verifies proper ventilation and insulation.
    This will be quite a task since the ceilings are completely finished and all vaulted to the rafters. Yikes!!
    Sometimes the easiest way to do something is to not do it ... but achieve the same goal in another manner. Sometimes it is 'impossible' (although *nothing* is "impossible" given enough $$$$) do to something, in which case the alternative is the 'only practical solution', even though it too cost $ as compared to 'doing nothing'.

    Given the above premise, than let's look at another option to provide ventilation:

    Install 2x2 on the existing rafters, install new decking on the 2x2, which now leaves a nice clean and open space of 1-1/2" for ventilation. The new roof goes on the new decking.

    Yes, a structural engineer would be needed for their blessing, one to address the additional weight of the 2x2 (not much) and the new decking (considerable), and to address proper nailing of the 2x2 to the existing rafters and proper nailing of the new decking.

    Now you have your ridge vent opening and soffit vent opening needed for proper ventilation.

    Easy to do, but, yes, it would take extra $$ to do it - although fewer $$ than would be spent replacing the roof as often as is now needed - the roof might last twice as long? Plus, you are talking about a *one time cost*, versus the continued replacement of the roof over the life of the house.

    That said, there must be an acknowledgment as to the additional cost versus the cost of that house. Worth it? That is up to the client.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
    Jon mackay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Great recommendation, its always good to think outside the box..

    Thanks


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon mackay View Post
    its always good to think outside the box..
    What box?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    I took the free online Certainteed Cont. Ed. and the subject of cracking shingles was talked about. I can't remember the specifics but there was something about different backings and different climates and cracking being more common with a certain combination.

    I don't believe the cracking is only due to age. I've come across this condition in fairly new roofs in my area. Not so much recently but there were a lot of shingles produced in the mid-late 90's that were heavily cracked after just a few years. On the other side of the coin are shingles that are 25 years old and have a bunch of mineral loss but no cracks like those pictured.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Agree that the shingles are toast.

    Without knowing how old they are, how can you recommend changing anything (other than the shingles of course)?

    If they are 20 years old, rip them off, install new ones and repeat in another 20 years.

    If they are 5 years old.......


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Quote Originally Posted by David Wood View Post
    ...Without knowing how old they are, how can you recommend changing anything (other than the shingles of course)?....
    Well, if the slope really is 2/12, you could reasonably recommend a different type of roofing.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    Quote Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
    Well, if the slope really is 2/12, you could reasonably recommend a different type of roofing.
    What type would you recommend, other than shingles?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  18. #18
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    I keep looking at the thread name


    Jon

    I was just curious why you said cracking at newer shingles. To me I would have guessed much, much older. Did someone give you the idea that they were only 10 years old?


  19. #19
    Frank Suchodolski's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    On a 2/12 roof I would suggest a 2-ply SBS roof system, self-adhering base and a torchable Cap sheet. Single ply PVC or TPO are other viable options. As far as venting, once the old roof is off, a sheet of plywood can be easily removed and the amount of space available for venting can be determined.

    Last edited by Frank Suchodolski; 12-05-2008 at 07:42 PM.

  20. #20
    Richard Pultar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cracking at newer shingles

    strip shingles are inappropriate for this pitch.unless extraordinary effort is made.. read expensive. Any of the roll roofing products are better. Unless they want the some color.
    Strip shingles are designed to shed water.
    I am guessing they are felt based shingles and because of the low slope the water can't drain off.and is absorbing water, the little bit of water that remains in the winter freezes and expands , like a crack in asphalt, which it is. Then the crack is there. Freeze thaw cycles are a powerful .
    Also the crackline in the picture is directly below the top edge of the shingle two layers below. The shingle is twelve inches wide , measuring up 10 inches from the edge of the exposed shingle is where the crack is.
    If you step on that point there is a void .albeit a eighth inch space, but if you step right there you put pressure on the shingle to move into that void.
    I bet kids played on that roof, people walked on that roof .
    Evidently the install was done carefully since the roof did not leak. I think they are just wearing out.


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